A comment and a question.

General project discussion.
Use this as a last resort if your topic does not fit in any of the other boards but it still on-topic.
Forum rules
This General Discussion board is meant for topics that are still relevant to Pale Moon, web browsers, browser tech, UXP applications, and related, but don't have a more fitting board available.

Please stick to the relevance of this forum here, which focuses on everything around the Pale Moon project and its user community. "Random" subjects don't belong here, and should be posted in the Off-Topic board.
User avatar
puppyX
Moonbather
Moonbather
Posts: 70
Joined: 2019-05-30, 11:43

A comment and a question.

Unread post by puppyX » 2022-05-16, 18:15

Firstly, Pale Moon is the 'finest kind' in the world of 'browsers'.

When Win 7 finally stops receiving security updates, I plan to move over to linux. After stumbling across this unix sheikh list, https://www.unixsheikh.com/articles/cho ... l#palemoon I have a question.

Is it correct that PM, " connects to Google every time it is started up just like Chromium" ? He doesn't explain how or why. Would that be the case if the home page is https://palemoon.start.me/uk with links to Gmail etc. ?

this may belong in the off topic area I wasn't sure. :oops:

User avatar
Pentium4User
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 838
Joined: 2019-04-24, 09:38

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by Pentium4User » 2022-05-16, 18:21

If you really like to find out, I recommend running a sniffer like Wireshark to see all the traffic on your system. Run it in a live system and make sure only PM is running.
You can also use F12 --> Network to see the network connects that PM does when loading a webpage.
start.me seems to implement Google Analytics and therefore a connection is made to Google.
If you don't like it, just remove the start.me start page.

EDIT:
Please tell the author of the website about that. I don't call that phoning home. It is opening a webpage and the browser does what the code on that page says.
I still use a 64 bit capable Pentium 4 670 processor with Pale Moon.

User avatar
back2themoon
Moon Magic practitioner
Moon Magic practitioner
Posts: 2046
Joined: 2012-08-19, 20:32

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by back2themoon » 2022-05-16, 18:32

Perhaps they'll get the browser's name right, too. Hopefully.

User avatar
athenian200
Contributing developer
Contributing developer
Posts: 668
Joined: 2018-10-28, 19:56
Location: Georgia
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-05-16, 19:18

I would recommend changing the browser's home page if the Google connection is a concern. The issue is that most websites, including the default home page, implement some kind of Google Analytics. There is no hard-coded connection to Google, though.

On Windows, you would click on the big blue button and go to Preferences->Preferences and then replace the URL for "Home Page." On Linux and other operating systems, I believe the menu bar is still shown by default, so you would go to Tools->Preferences and replace the URL for "Home Page."
"There are two sentences inscribed upon the Ancient oracle... 'Know thyself' and 'Nothing too much'; and upon these all other precepts depend." -- Plutarch

User avatar
Pentium4User
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 838
Joined: 2019-04-24, 09:38

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by Pentium4User » 2022-05-16, 19:24

athenian200 wrote:
2022-05-16, 19:18
On Linux and other operating systems, I believe the menu bar is still shown by default, so you would go to Tools->Preferences and replace the URL for "Home Page."
True, there is no blue Pale Moon button on Linux. IIRC there is/was an addon that made this button available on Linux.
I still use a 64 bit capable Pentium 4 670 processor with Pale Moon.

vannilla
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1911
Joined: 2018-05-05, 13:29

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by vannilla » 2022-05-16, 19:49

Off-topic:
I like how the author dismisses Pale Moon with a single paragraph and then recommends doing a lot of configuration to deal with Firefox, when to stop Pale Moon's "misfeatures" you simply need to change the home page and disable automatic updates, which is a two-clicks thing. Compared to the pageful of instructions dedicated to Firefox I'm amazed people think Pale Moon is worse.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 32206
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-05-16, 20:46

As people have pointed out, any Google connection made would be due to the default home page, not the browser itself.
Start.me uses advertising to pay for the provided service (servers and staff cost money) and if you are not happy with that fact, then the solution is to not use the default home page, but any of the other options. The partnership with start.me has flowed from user requests as people wanted a configurable page and not something static like I had before. They provide the service to our users, and we provide them with more potential customers in turn.
Off-topic:
vannilla wrote:
2022-05-16, 19:49
Compared to the pageful of instructions dedicated to Firefox I'm amazed people think Pale Moon is worse.
It's all about presentation. By dismissing Pale Moon with a single paragraph it gives the impression that it's not even worth looking at, because the author clearly couldn't be bothered with anything but an "it's bad/just like Chrome" hand-waved verdict, either.
"You will observe with concern how long a useful truth may be known and exist before it is generally received and practiced on." -- Benjamin Franklin
"Compromise and collaboration lie at the heart of all great endeavours" -- Kassandra
Image

htuyar
Moonbather
Moonbather
Posts: 57
Joined: 2015-09-11, 10:19
Location: Istanbul

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by htuyar » 2022-05-16, 21:48

There is a discussion about the validity of some of the claims in that unixsheikh article on this thread:

https://github.com/Lissy93/personal-security-checklist/issues/144

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 3952
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-05-17, 06:28

There was a similar idiot who claimed that the TCP/IP protocol itself was problematic because it is used to make network connections that could compromise privacy.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
Linux Mint 20.1 Xfce x64 on HP i5-5200 laptop, 12 GB RAM.
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 32206
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-05-17, 09:36

moonbat wrote:
2022-05-17, 06:28
There was a similar idiot who claimed that the TCP/IP protocol itself was problematic because it is used to make network connections that could compromise privacy.
By that note, any Internet connection would be problematic :D
"You will observe with concern how long a useful truth may be known and exist before it is generally received and practiced on." -- Benjamin Franklin
"Compromise and collaboration lie at the heart of all great endeavours" -- Kassandra
Image

User avatar
RealityRipple
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 505
Joined: 2018-05-17, 02:34
Location: Los Berros Canyon, California
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by RealityRipple » 2022-05-18, 03:31

*Modifies line 256 of palemoon/app/profile/palemoon.js to make the default of browser.startup.page equal to 0*

Is my browser the most secure in the world, now?

vannilla
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1911
Joined: 2018-05-05, 13:29

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by vannilla » 2022-05-18, 07:13

RealityRipple wrote:
2022-05-18, 03:31
*Modifies line 256 of palemoon/app/profile/palemoon.js to make the default of browser.startup.page equal to 0*

Is my browser the most secure in the world, now?
They're going to complain about automatic updates next, because that's phoning home.
:coffee:

User avatar
RealityRipple
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 505
Joined: 2018-05-17, 02:34
Location: Los Berros Canyon, California
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by RealityRipple » 2022-05-18, 10:56

vannilla wrote:
2022-05-18, 07:13
RealityRipple wrote:
2022-05-18, 03:31
*Modifies line 256 of palemoon/app/profile/palemoon.js to make the default of browser.startup.page equal to 0*

Is my browser the most secure in the world, now?
They're going to complain about automatic updates next, because that's phoning home.
:coffee:
Homebrew compiles don't have that feature already. And adding extensions or themes is obviously too dangerous.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 32206
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-05-18, 14:18

RealityRipple wrote:
2022-05-18, 10:56
Homebrew compiles don't have that feature already. And adding extensions or themes is obviously too dangerous.
They should build without extension support then.
Oh and while at it, remove blocklists, and dynamic user-agent updates, and captive portal checking, too. Did I miss something? I probably did. Oh right. No sync/weave either, because it's "evil" by storing third-party-unrecoverable encrypted blobs of data.
"You will observe with concern how long a useful truth may be known and exist before it is generally received and practiced on." -- Benjamin Franklin
"Compromise and collaboration lie at the heart of all great endeavours" -- Kassandra
Image

User avatar
THX-1139
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 383
Joined: 2019-06-13, 13:42
Location: In a place with no YT

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by THX-1139 » 2022-05-18, 16:19

Well it seems some folk maybe don't understand what a "Home Page" is, or can be; Any website can be a Home Page, ie Google (not in my world), YT, the Washington Post, your Grandmas recipe posted at twatter. Any website, and if not mistaken, even a website you personally created residing on your PC, my HP is whatever search engine I am currently favoring...My 91 yo father had a problem understanding this concept, he thought it was something else... I can't remember what he thought, it was so looney.
Pale Moon 29.4.6 (64) Win7 pro (64)

"People will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think." ~ Aldous Huxley

"Man needs difficulties; they are necessary for health." ~Carl Jung

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 32206
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Tranås, SE
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-05-18, 17:38

Let's make it simple:
home1.png
Put any URL you want in the highlighted field to be used as the home page.

Or, if you want the internal page with search bar to be used instead of an external URL, then empty that field.

Or if you don't want it to do anything, select "use a blank page" from the drop-down above it.
"You will observe with concern how long a useful truth may be known and exist before it is generally received and practiced on." -- Benjamin Franklin
"Compromise and collaboration lie at the heart of all great endeavours" -- Kassandra
Image

User avatar
RealityRipple
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 505
Joined: 2018-05-17, 02:34
Location: Los Berros Canyon, California
Contact:

Re: A comment and a question.

Unread post by RealityRipple » 2022-05-18, 18:24

Moonchild wrote:
2022-05-18, 14:18
RealityRipple wrote:
2022-05-18, 10:56
Homebrew compiles don't have that feature already. And adding extensions or themes is obviously too dangerous.
They should build without extension support then.
Oh and while at it, remove blocklists, and dynamic user-agent updates, and captive portal checking, too. Did I miss something? I probably did. Oh right. No sync/weave either, because it's "evil" by storing third-party-unrecoverable encrypted blobs of data.
And for that matter, accessing websites is the leading cause of security risks from websites, so let's force it to always run in offline mode and not access anything online ever. If people want to view websites, they should write them out by hand on their own computers using notepad, the way Tim Berners-Lee intended.

Post Reply