Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

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Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by RealityRipple » 2021-03-03, 22:09

Noticed today on SeaMonkey's site that they're having discussions about breaking away from Mozilla permanently. Any chance of pulling them towards Goanna?

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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-03, 22:11

There is no chance in hell. I had tried for five years to get them to align with us. Frank-Rainer Grahl, the defacto leader of the SeaMonkey Project, considers us an old and insecure version of Firefox while they have LITERALLY been old and insecure, platform wise, for the past two and a half years with little to no way forward.

I am beyond trying at this point.

On a technical level they blew away any chance to the moment they released their gecko/56 based version due to the profile structure changes and FE changes. They knew this before they did it because I told them. They can't come back from that and they can't move forward. They stranded their userbase and they are stuck and it all happened exactly as I predicted years ago.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by Moonchild » 2021-03-03, 22:41

Independently of what Tobin did I reached out to them as well and first was left hanging for a long time then was told in unmistakable terms they were not at all interested.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by moonbat » 2021-03-04, 03:11

The closest you''ll get is Iceape but it is only available for Hyperbola Linux and I think their UXP codebase is out of date.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-04, 12:00

Except g4jc is a complete failure in managing his projects and hasn't done dick for quite a while to improve not-basilisk. It is also irrelevant to this thread.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by daemonspudguy » 2021-03-14, 23:25

Possible, yes. Likely at all, no.

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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-14, 23:42

No it is not possible for the reasons I have outlined. The developmental changes since 2.49 would need dropped and the user profiles would NOT be compatibile with UXP at their current level.

They have screwed them selves out of all possible options. They cannot go back and they cannot move forward very much if at all. They are done and they have failed just as I said they would.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by daemonspudguy » 2021-03-14, 23:48

To this I still wonder how one can fuck up a once-amazing project as much as SeaMonkey has been.

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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by moonbat » 2021-03-15, 01:23

daemonspudguy wrote:
2021-03-14, 23:48
To this I still wonder how one can fuck up a once-amazing project as much as SeaMonkey has been.
Hubris, and they spurned Moonchild's attempt to collaborate on porting it to UXP. Now it's too late to change anything and they'll have to ride it down to the seabed.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-15, 02:29

More like apathy, fear, and Stockholm Syndrome plus a good dose of abject hate, ignorance, and mismanagement specifically on the part of frg but some left over from project traior and at the time Mozilla employee KaiRo before someone tugged on his borg implants.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by WiseWolf » 2021-03-23, 01:18

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-03-03, 22:11
There is no chance in hell. I had tried for five years to get them to align with us. Frank-Rainer Grahl, the defacto leader of the SeaMonkey Project, considers us an old and insecure version of Firefox while they have LITERALLY been old and insecure, platform wise, for the past two and a half years with little to no way forward.

I am beyond trying at this point.

On a technical level they blew away any chance to the moment they released their gecko/56 based version due to the profile structure changes and FE changes. They knew this before they did it because I told them. They can't come back from that and they can't move forward. They stranded their userbase and they are stuck and it all happened exactly as I predicted years ago.
That is so ironic that they consider uxp old and insecure while firefox's current self is adding insecure antifeatures, and other crap that bloats the code base beyond any reasonable doubt.

Franky-Rainer Grahl sounds like his head is stuck in the clouds.

I don't always agree with you, such as below with regard to g4jc But you are 100% right, seamonkey is a dead end. Switching to webextensions is just damn suicide for them.

I would have hoped they would have realized that. Besides, mozilla keeps firing their devs, its like they want to kill firefox off completely.

Smh...

What's next is the seamonkey crew gonna base it on chromium...

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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by WiseWolf » 2021-03-23, 01:24

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-03-04, 12:00
Except g4jc is a complete failure in managing his projects and hasn't done dick for quite a while to improve not-basilisk. It is also irrelevant to this thread.
Pretty sure g4jc would help if you were willing to let him.

Also, don't assume everyone has bad motives if you can.

If you want to call me stupid or naive though, I suppose....

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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by Moonchild » 2021-03-23, 03:08

Off-topic:
I'm sorry but I have to fully agree with Tobin on Luke (g4jc). In the past... well almost year now I've only ever heard from him when something broke his particular use of UXP and wanting an immediate fix. There has been no cooperation, no documentation of what he's done re: porting WebComponent bugs from Mozilla, no transfer of information or knowledge, and it's been the singular reason why we haven't made much if any progress yet since he ran into the brick wall of Mozilla having switched to Servo at a certain point in his porting effort. The only things that have been done have been to directly benefit small parts of his forks.
Off-topic:
WiseWolf wrote:
2021-03-23, 01:24
Pretty sure g4jc would help if you were willing to let him.
He has had an open door. Wide open. But there has been 0 initiative or help to do anything for the platform beyond trying to direct-port Mozilla bugs. Even if one doesn't fully understand everything done in a bug there will (have to) be basic understanding of the code changes and architecture changes, and none of that has been communicated.

So while I understand you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, also understand that there's been plenty of time for him to be more involved and I haven't heard anything unless I occasionally broke building for his use with code changes -- which happens now and then because I can't test everything.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-23, 03:42

Off-topic:
I seriously don't understand why this community is so willing to give the worst people with the most selfish motives the benefit of the doubt but other people almost never get it. Not just me but even Moonchild isn't always afforded it.

Even with documented proof over years they get it. Explain it to me.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by WiseWolf » 2021-03-24, 09:19

I don't have a concrete answer to either you or moonchild, you are both doing good work which I appreciate, but I guess I must be naive to think that all people who have similar goals can work together regardless of their personalities and other things.

That being said. if you say he hasn't communicated well enough, perhaps I am wrong.

I don't think he would do it on purpose, but again, that's just what I think. Again, I wasn't there.

I apologize if I am naive though.


Sidenote, Does he have the same permissions on your new repository as he did on github?

If so, he must not realize it.

That all being said, this is kind of off topic.

I didn't realize he hasn't informed you moonchild either. I guess Tobin is right that Luke is not giving enough info.

If you guys want, I can try to talk to him. See what's up.

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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-24, 13:15

Please don't. Last thing I need is for you injecting yourself into additional complex situations with your wishy-washy can't everyone just get along and giving everyone the benefit of the doubt horseshit.

Your entire post history shows that is all you do and in effect you align yourself with and support the worst offenders and threats to this project and the Unified XUL Platform. Even when you are non-commital and play at neutrally it effectively hampers resolution of whatever controversy you take part in.

It isn't helpful, it isn't productive, and it hinders my operations and on-going strategies. So stop it. Just because you are seemingly nice and friendly doesn't mean you aren't problimatic or not interfering in things you don't understand.
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by Moonchild » 2021-03-24, 22:22

WiseWolf wrote:
2021-03-24, 09:19
If you guys want, I can try to talk to him. See what's up.
It would probably just be counter-productive is an unrelated person suddenly butts in and goes "hey! why don't you tell me what you aren't telling the people who are involved directly?".. I guess you can see how that's not gonna work? :shh:
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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by WiseWolf » 2021-03-25, 04:33

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-03-24, 13:15
Please don't. Last thing I need is for you injecting yourself into additional complex situations with your wishy-washy can't everyone just get along and giving everyone the benefit of the doubt horseshit.

Your entire post history shows that is all you do and in effect you align yourself with and support the worst offenders and threats to this project and the Unified XUL Platform. Even when you are non-commital and play at neutrally it effectively hampers resolution of whatever controversy you take part in.

It isn't helpful, it isn't productive, and it hinders my operations and on-going strategies. So stop it. Just because you are seemingly nice and friendly doesn't mean you aren't problimatic or not interfering in things you don't understand.
Alright, I won't bother then.

I will stay out of this then. It sounds like nothing will change for the better anyways if I do anything. :(

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Re: Could SeaMonkey ever be converted to UXP?

Post by WiseWolf » 2021-03-25, 04:35

Moonchild wrote:
2021-03-24, 22:22
WiseWolf wrote:
2021-03-24, 09:19
If you guys want, I can try to talk to him. See what's up.
It would probably just be counter-productive is an unrelated person suddenly butts in and goes "hey! why don't you tell me what you aren't telling the people who are involved directly?".. I guess you can see how that's not gonna work? :shh:
Point taken from above your poster.

Tobin may be right, its just not going to work.

I got that feeling from all three of you. It's a shame, but meh... from here on out, perhaps its better I stay out of it.

I say three of you, because I think you both aren't the only ones who think its pointless to try. If that sounds insulting, it wasn't meant to be.

I am only saying that Luke might feel like its going nowhere too.

Thanks for your wisdom moonchild though. I should've thought this through more, before I even came over here to ask you both.

Peace then...

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