UXP and Thunderbird?

Discussions about the development and maturation of the Unified XUL Platform (UXP).
Warning: may contain highly-technical topics.

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Sun42
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UXP and Thunderbird?

Unread postby Sun42 » Mon, 04 Dec 2017, 00:28

One innocent question: Don't the Thunderbird devs have the same problem, i.e. Mozilla pulling the rug away under their feet and tb not wanting to abandon the xul addons?

I understand there have been "talks" between the Mozilla management and the Thunderbird devs - but it seems stange this UXP fork is to be a base for multiple legacy applications like Sunbird and whatnot, and Thunderbird tries to re-invent the wheel and doesn't join?

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Re: UXP and Thunderbird?

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Mon, 04 Dec 2017, 02:00

Good question.. Why not ask them. It would be great if comm-central (Thunderbird, Calendar (Sunbird as a standalone died but could come back), InstantBird, and SeaMonkey) joined the effort.

I have been trying on the SeaMonkey front but the new hotshot on the council doesn't seem to like me or us very much. Also, don't forget all comm-central projects are open source so if them over at comm-central DO fade away.. It can be forked.
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Re: UXP and Thunderbird?

Unread postby Sun42 » Mon, 04 Dec 2017, 09:34

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:Good question.. Why not ask them. It would be great if comm-central (Thunderbird, Calendar (Sunbird as a standalone died but could come back), InstantBird, and SeaMonkey) joined the effort.


Here ya go (I hope I got the correct (sub)forum) - feel free to add something to the thread: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... &t=3036233

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:I have been trying on the SeaMonkey front but the new hotshot on the council doesn't seem to like me or us very much.


I'm not surprised at all, both SeaMonkey and Pale Moon shrare the same basicc idology, but with different fork causes "the world was better place before a) evil Australis hit us or b) essental Mail/News were removed and made people use Facebook". Well, and of course the common "Mozilla spams us with spyware features and tries to control us with signing and telemetry" - and I share this criticism. But having most things in common always was a cause for vendettas to the death :-p

However, now that with Mozilla abandoning the whole addon model there's a much more pressing need to pool ressources, and I think UXP and Basilisk are a peace offering and viable way forward.

If it wouldn't be for the "no no no no no, Pale Moon is our true baby, Basilisk (Australis! Doh!) is just an unwelcome step brother" community front, I imagine it isn't different on the SeaMonkey side ("a browser without nntp protocol integration? That's treason to the holy Internet legacy, we want gopher back!") :->

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Re: UXP and Thunderbird?

Unread postby gracious1 » Mon, 04 Dec 2017, 12:36

Sun42 wrote:However, now that with Mozilla abandoning the whole addon model there's a much more pressing need to pool ressources, and I think UXP and Basilisk are a peace offering and viable way forward.

If it wouldn't be for the "no no no no no, Pale Moon is our true baby, Basilisk (Australis! Doh!) is just an unwelcome step brother" community front, I imagine it isn't different on the SeaMonkey side ("a browser without nntp protocol integration? That's treason to the holy Internet legacy, we want gopher back!") :->


None of this is relevant to a thread about UXP and Thunderbird.

I have noticed that whatever the thread is, you try to turn the conversation into a place for you to put down Pale Moon and encourage everyone to switch to Basilisk (or Waterfox), and also insult people who use Pale Moon.
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Re: UXP and Thunderbird?

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Mon, 04 Dec 2017, 12:57

Reading back over your comments Sun42 I have to lean towards gracious1's assessment however I don't want to cause any drama.. today. So I will kindly ask you to take it down a notch please.

In any event, I for one would welcome comm-central and its member projects as well as Waterfox and what's left of the Cyberfox community to come and work with us to create a brighter future for all.. I have said as much in the past.. Repeatedly. However, it has to be up to them. That is what I learned with the SeaMonkey project over the course of YEARS..

They have to WANT to not go extinct. SeaMonkey and less spectacularly Thunderbird have both survived previous attempts at forces trying to kill their projects.. Why not continue the trend and survive! Well.. If they should fall, others shall take their place. Maybe not all at once and not instantly to be sure. Though it can happen and surely would.

EDIT:

Off-topic:
gracious1, you seem very interested in things and stuff.. Why not come to the Pale Moon IRC Channel which is accessible on the main site or irc.freenode.net #palemoon .. Might be able to more efficiently answer some of your questions and such.
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Re: UXP and Thunderbird?

Unread postby Sun42 » Mon, 04 Dec 2017, 21:28

gracious1 wrote:
Sun42 wrote:However, now that with Mozilla abandoning the whole addon model there's a much more pressing need to pool ressources, and I think UXP and Basilisk are a peace offering and viable way forward.
None of this is relevant to a thread about UXP and Thunderbird.


... a thread which I started, and in which I have done as New Tobin Paradigm asked and posted a thead in the Thunderbird forum to inquire.

Plus I disagree, developing UXP as a common platform and having a demonstration product based on that is very much relevaant to a thread why Thunderbid might be inlined to consider joining. Since the different historical idosyncasies of the communities are a probable hinerance, I do think this is releavant, too - though my humour about it might have been missed by some.

gracious1 wrote:I have noticed that whatever the thread is, you try to turn the conversation into a place for you to put down Pale Moon and encourage everyone to switch to Basilisk (or Waterfox), and also insult people who use Pale Moon.


As a year-long Pale Moon user I would be insulting myself (my profile is from 2015). Plus wondering about differences in current browsers doesn't mean I'm actively encouraging to switch anyone to anything - though it is unfortunately a common fallacy in the software world.

And "whatever the thread"? The one...
... where I inquired about older builds being availble in case a newer is broken or
... the one I've asked about the guiid, or
... the one about ff57+ security beckports, or
... the one about marking we extensions in the addon list, or
... the one where I actively contributed a modified xpi for maff/mht after a couple of hours wading through and testing xul code?

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:Reading back over your comments Sun42 I have to lean towards gracious1's assessment however I don't want to cause any drama.. today. So I will kindly ask you to take it down a notch please.


I admit afer trying to do a matter-of-fact dicussion about users' perception I was annoyed after gracious1 intentionally mis-quoted and criticized me to have written legacy Pale Moon which is part of the very thread title (viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17530&p=129179#p129179). If you agree with this behavior that's of course your prerogative and I'm not welcome here.

Which makes me a little sad as I had just ported the maff/mhtml code, inquired about UXP at Thunderbird (first replies are in) and was looking forward to continue to work preserving the xul legacy :-\

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Re: UXP and Thunderbird?

Unread postby gracious1 » Tue, 05 Dec 2017, 01:37

Sun42 wrote:


Not wishing to be drawn into your flame war, I write my last post to you.

You like to derail threads and turn the conversation around to insulting PM users and suggesting that Basilisk/Watefox is the way to go. You also do this on the threads you create yourself; it's what you did on this thread. New Tobin Paradigm asked you to stop. So stop.

I also don't appreciate the suggestion that I deliberately misquoted you, or that I don't understand academic standards for citation. Pure condescension and arrogance.

I don't want him on my threads. If no moderator is going to do anything about this jerk, then I will have to cease posting. I don't want to waste my time trying to talk about specific topics or writing tutorials, and then have this guy post irrelevant things trying to steer the discussion to his agenda.

I don't want to waste my time trying to promote Pale Moon or encourage developers to write extensions, and then have this saboteur come on support threads and undermine developers' confidence in Pale Moon, while representing himself as a supporter. This is what he does; and I tried to show you all this, but I was told not to cross-community post. So I am at the end of my rope.
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satrow
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Re: UXP and Thunderbird?

Unread postby satrow » Tue, 05 Dec 2017, 02:56

Okay Sun42, time's up on your twisting; back off or get booted. You will not get another warning.


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