UXP vs goanna

Discussions about the development and maturation of the Unified XUL Platform (UXP).
Warning: may contain highly-technical topics.

Moderators: trava90, satrow

testator777
Hobby Astronomer
Hobby Astronomer
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon, 09 Jan 2017, 02:49

UXP vs goanna

Unread postby testator777 » Thu, 02 Nov 2017, 04:29

So basilisk will use the australis user interface with a fork of the UXP platform from mozilla upstream. Will UXP still use the mediasource renderer that travis or whoever originally wrote for the goanna platform? Will palemoon be switching over from goanna to uxp? If it is switching, then what are the benefits to developement and to the users? I remember using palemoon because you had a less destroyed platform codebase then upstream mozilla. But if you are going to just restart and fork upstream again, then why should someone continue to use palemoon, basilisk, or mobius over firefox? Maybe I am just missunderstanding something here. Correct me if I am wrong.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22294
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby Moonchild » Thu, 02 Nov 2017, 10:47

I think you're misunderstanding a few things, indeed.
  • Goanna is the layout and rendering engine; UXP is the platform code. Let me re-post the image I threw together to roughly explain how this all fits together.
  • Basilisk is an application that builds on top of the platform. What user interface any application uses is up to the application, not the platform it builds on.
  • UXP's media code will be using the mediasource renderer Travis has been working on; at least in a manner of speaking. Making a new platform will inherently mean we will have to throw away a bunch of custom code we made as well, but the end result should be better overall.
  • The plan is to switch Pale Moon over from our current platform to UXP (long-term plans) because a developed and maintained XUL-based platform is the only way a XUL application (like Pale Moon) has any chance of surviving without falling into obsolescence, with Mozilla abandoning this technology. That has been the main reason why I decided to start on this platform to begin with! Regardless, the platform will not be solely developed for Pale Moon's potential future use, it is developed for any future XUL application that will otherwise be dead in the water. Basically we're taking over the torch from Mozilla in developing and maintaining a platform for XUL applications of any kind; Mozilla should not be seen as "upstream" because it isn't.
  • As part of the UXP codebase development, we'll also be restoring/fixing up and cleaning up the Mozilla-inherited code in several ways. We'll also work on going from this whole "the browser is the platform"-approach Mozilla has been developing under to "the platform underpins/supports the browser (and others)"-approach; basically back to the roots of what the Mozilla platform started out as.

Please do understand that this is a lot of work, and all of this will take time.

rough-layout-of-mozilla-based-applications.png
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

Take note: 23 November is Wolfenoot! Eat roast meat and/or cake decorated like the full moon. #wolfenoot

Latitude
Banned user
Banned user
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon, 21 Mar 2016, 18:28

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby Latitude » Fri, 03 Nov 2017, 11:01

So, as a platform, we could develop another UXP-based application, especially the discontinued ones, like Songbird, InstantBird, KompoZer, etc.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22294
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby Moonchild » Fri, 03 Nov 2017, 11:55

Latitude wrote:So, as a platform, we could develop another UXP-based application, especially the discontinued ones, like Songbird, InstantBird, KompoZer, etc.

Precisely.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

Take note: 23 November is Wolfenoot! Eat roast meat and/or cake decorated like the full moon. #wolfenoot

Latitude
Banned user
Banned user
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon, 21 Mar 2016, 18:28

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby Latitude » Fri, 03 Nov 2017, 12:12

Moonchild wrote:Precisely.


Is it in executable form (.exe)?

Is it SDK in itself? Like Visual Studio?

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22294
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby Moonchild » Fri, 03 Nov 2017, 12:14

Latitude wrote:
Moonchild wrote:Precisely.

Is it in executable form (.exe)?
Is it SDK in itself? Like Visual Studio?

Please go read basic information about XUL applications and all your questions will be answered.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

Take note: 23 November is Wolfenoot! Eat roast meat and/or cake decorated like the full moon. #wolfenoot

User avatar
gracious1
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 836
Joined: Sun, 15 May 2016, 05:00
Location: muggy, muggy upstate NY

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby gracious1 » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 02:56

Moonchild wrote:
  • Goanna is the layout and rendering engine; UXP is the platform code.
  • The plan is to switch Pale Moon over from our current platform to UXP


What is the current platform for Pale Moon called?
And thanks again for re-posting the picture. Very helpful. :geek:
Image“We look forward to the time when the Power of Love will replace the Love of Power. Then will our world know the blessings of peace.” ― Wm. Ewart Gladstone ◊ Int'l Day of Peace 21 Sept. ◊

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22294
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby Moonchild » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 10:29

gracious1 wrote:What is the current platform for Pale Moon called?

It has code name "Tycho", but has no other specific official name.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

Take note: 23 November is Wolfenoot! Eat roast meat and/or cake decorated like the full moon. #wolfenoot

van p
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu, 19 Nov 2015, 07:15
Location: Cincinnati, OH, U.S.A.

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby van p » Sun, 05 Nov 2017, 04:24

Off-topic:
¡Feliz Día de los Muertos!

gracious1, is it a happy day because they're dead or are they happy because they're dead, or what, 'xactly?
Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 8GB i5-4570 | Pale Moon v27.9.4 x64

User avatar
megaman
Moon Magic practitioner
Moon Magic practitioner
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue, 30 Aug 2011, 16:40
Location: H-town

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby megaman » Sun, 05 Nov 2017, 05:06

I'm curious, what gets more priority. "Stability," "Compatibility," or "Performance Improvements."

Off-topic:
van p wrote:is it a happy day because they're dead or are they happy because they're dead, or what, 'xactly?

Okay, before this turns into a stray. Day of the Dead is honoring them.
If it is someone that died and you are glad for their death, sure, celebrate at your own discretion.
Curiosity leads to a world of experiments.

Sun42
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat, 26 Sep 2015, 16:28
Location: Here

Re: UXP vs goanna

Unread postby Sun42 » Sat, 02 Dec 2017, 17:38

Moonchild wrote:[*]The plan is to switch Pale Moon over from our current platform to UXP (long-term plans) because a developed and maintained XUL-based platform is the only way a XUL application (like Pale Moon) has any chance of surviving without falling into obsolescence, with Mozilla abandoning this technology. That has been the main reason why I decided to start on this platform to begin with!


So the current "Basilisk" browser is just an "unstable" rolling-release sample of a possible implementation, like ff "Nightly"? And updating "Pale Moon" to the current codebase is the real deveopment target supporting either UI (old-school and Australis) and all extension models (legacy, sdk, we)?

Edit: Ok, right, that's probably it: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15984#p116272 ... I hope using Basilisk is a valid option for the moment, seems to be as stable as Waterfox oder Pale Moon.


Return to “UXP platform development”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest