Will there be support for presearch.org engine? Topic is solved

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adamant
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Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by adamant » 2022-04-21, 18:29

I have been a very happy user of Pale Moon for many years. My primary platform is Devuan.
I have seen some discussions on the forum but cannot find a resolution to my issue. I saw some code from greasemonkey but I wouldn't know how to integrate that anyway!
I am sure there are many users that wish to NOT support duckduckgo any more since they have decided to bias search results.

So to my point I am able now to change search engines and somewhere along the way I was able to add presearch as a search engine. If I go to presearch default search page I am able to type in search information but after it switches to a results page nothing appears and then interactivity with the searchbar is not possible, unable to type or change anything.

Please, I would really like to keep Pale moon and the last thing I want to do is to provoke anyone. I just want to know if there will be support and if so when would that possibly be available.
Thank you.
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-04-22, 00:07

Seems to rely on a not yet implemented feature -

Code: Select all

ReferenceError: queueMicrotask is not defined
You'll have to use a Chrome based browser in the meantime, or a different search engine on Pale Moon.
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-04-22, 00:21

adamant wrote:
2022-04-21, 18:29
I am sure there are many users that wish to NOT support duckduckgo any more since they have decided to bias search results.
Actually, they don't. I had a pretty lengthy back and forth with them (even with Gabriel himself) about this and any bias that comes through in the so-called "long tail" search results (= the list of links and results you get in result pages) is a direct result of upstream search providers that DDG has to rely on for indexing. While DDG does a good job of preventing filter bubbles and preserving end users' privacy, outright blocked results from their upstream providers can't magically be recreated. So in the broadest sense, regional filtering will always apply unless DDG wants to build their own independent index of billions of pages which really isn't within their scope of operations, afaik.

I do hope you're willing to continue to use DDG as it indirectly supports Pale Moon through the partnership we have with them being the default engine in the browser. Of the mainstream engines available, it is still the one that has my biggest support. And no, I wouldn't accept it if they would be actively filtering/biasing/censoring the results themselves, but they aren't.

P.S. The "queueMicroTask" feature will be in the next milestone release.
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by adamant » 2022-04-25, 22:42

Thank you sir, for your considered reply and time.
However Mr Weinberg has tweeted that:
"Like so many others I am sickened by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the gigantic humanitarian crisis it continues to create. #StandWithUkraine️
At DuckDuckGo, we've been rolling out search updates that down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation."


I am not comfortable with any censorship as it is a slippery slope. I will continue to support Pale Moon as I find it to be by far the best desktop browser available but not DDG. I have removed the App and engines from all my Android and Linux systems. Time will tell if DDG censorship continues, in the meantime I have enabled Brave engine within Pale Moon.

I really appreciate the feedback but feel people need to make a stand for freedom, particularly on the internet, that in a very small way I helped create.

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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by adamant » 2022-04-25, 22:44

Oh and thanks Moonbat :)

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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-04-26, 01:05

adamant wrote:
2022-04-25, 22:42
Thank you sir, for your considered reply and time.
However Mr Weinberg has tweeted that:
Like I already said, I had a discussion about this with DDG management and the premise of censorship endangered the long-standing partnership we had. I was ensured that no censorship or filtering is taking place by DDG. The amount of "down-ranking" is an adjustment primarily based on objective criteria (just like any search engine that actually ranks by link quality and not just popularity does) and DDG itself does not not employ censorship, but, as I already said, they are unfortunately also dependent on what their search engine upstream providers give them as search results to draw on -- and even those results aren't just used verbatim and DDG does adjust rankings (both up and down) based on a number of independent factors. So while propagandistic Russian search results may end up on page 2, 3 or further down as a result, they are not outright censored (that is, if they aren't censored by regional restrictions otherwise and enforced by governments). This kind of approach is critical for me to consider them a search partner that is used by default in Pale Moon.

While I have considered running my own search engine and web indexer/crawler, setting that up is not trivial and would take considerable time and resources, and would have to be driven by donations as well as I do not wish to end up dealing with advertisers on such an engine. So our options are simply limited at the moment because literally everyone from low to high is affected by the war, and the conflict inevitably biases information on the internet at the moment depending on what part of the world you are in and which group governs you.
Pale Moon tries to remain as neutral as possible, but true neutrality is practically impossible at the moment. All I can urge you is to remain critical of information you receive, and to remain aware of bias and practices like astroturfing, propaganda (on both sides), governmental mandates binding providers, and resulting data manipulation.
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-04-26, 01:36

Off-topic:
Moonchild wrote:
2022-04-26, 01:05
While I have considered running my own search engine and web indexer/crawler, setting that up is not trivial and would take considerable time and resources, and would have to be driven by donations as well as I do not wish to end up dealing with advertisers on such an engine.
:shock:

Holy cow, I'm tempted to say "shut up and take my money!", but out of respect I'll restrain myself.

I'll bet I'm not the only one who would gladly donate. How cool would it be if you took on Google and Bing and all their CIA friends with a real search engine?
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by TheRealMaestro » 2022-04-29, 20:05

Mojeek has served me well for over a month; I had found it after Qwant and MetaGer, my former search engines of choice, had declared that they would suppress sites because of this latest slaughter. Unlike other privacy-friendly search engines, it keeps its own index (with milliards of sites now), so is free from influence like this. (I had falsely said on this forum once before that it is a metasearch engine, supposing this from its links to try Bing and Yandex on the page foot; I would like now to acknowledge my past error.) Its Web log, as of 29 IV 21, has never mentioned the war in the Ukraine, but notes from 2018 that it is committed to neutrality in content results. My transition has pleased me; I had deleted Qwant and MetaGer from my search engine choices some weeks ago, and have never looked back.
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-04-30, 09:49

Thanks for the tip! I'm looking into if it can be added as a default supplied search engine to Pale Moon and if we can support each other.
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by daemonspudguy » 2022-05-02, 14:06

This might just be me, but I don't consider DuckDuckGo not prioritizing Russian state media to be a bad thing. I don't think the viewpoints of the government of an invading army are important.

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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by TheRealMaestro » 2022-05-02, 23:44

daemonspudguy wrote:
2022-05-02, 14:06
This might just be me, but I don't consider DuckDuckGo not prioritizing Russian state media to be a bad thing. I don't think the viewpoints of the government of an invading army are important.
Journalism from any nation is drivel. Search engines are responsible for results’ general relevance, not their accuracy: the user must weigh all claims for himself. (Privacy-friendly engines especially commit to this generality; their nominal goal is to avoid tilting the results toward the user’s favour.) If newspapers are relevant results for a given query, a search engine demoting Xlandic results because the firm prefers Yland’s opinions is choosing a side in a quarrel. This editorial action goes against the idea that a search engine ought to display those parts of the internet having to do with a given keyword, no more.
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by daemonspudguy » 2022-05-03, 00:57

TheRealMaestro wrote:
2022-05-02, 23:44
daemonspudguy wrote:
2022-05-02, 14:06
This might just be me, but I don't consider DuckDuckGo not prioritizing Russian state media to be a bad thing. I don't think the viewpoints of the government of an invading army are important.
Journalism from any nation is drivel. Search engines are responsible for results’ general relevance, not their accuracy: the user must weigh all claims for himself. (Privacy-friendly engines especially commit to this generality; their nominal goal is to avoid tilting the results toward the user’s favour.) If newspapers are relevant results for a given query, a search engine demoting Xlandic results because the firm prefers Yland’s opinions is choosing a side in a quarrel. This editorial action goes against the idea that a search engine ought to display those parts of the internet having to do with a given keyword, no more.
It should also be noted that I am a 17 year old from a rich country whose opinion on the world do not matter.

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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by adamant » 2022-05-04, 22:50

Thank you all. After some analysis it does seem to be that DDG does a better job (neutrality) than anywhere else. Returning as default engine :)

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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by Baloo » 2022-05-07, 22:20

Moonchild wrote:
2022-04-30, 09:49
Thanks for the tip! I'm looking into if it can be added as a default supplied search engine to Pale Moon and if we can support each other.
I've added my own search engine plugins for Mojeek, PeteyVid, Gigablast, Wiby.org, Swisscows, and Searx for some time now. Would be great to see some of them, as independent search engines added as potential default search engines to give people more options while informing people of their existence. I primarily use DuckDuckGo myself as well but have noticed recently there has been a big dip in quality on search results that I know should come up. All of the ones I listed are privacy-respecting search engines that offer good results in their own field. PeteyVid is an excellent search engine for videos, while Wiby.org is great for old websites. SearX has many different instances that can be used. Gigablast is the only search engine which runs on its own coded engine rather than merely serving as an aggregate service.

Please continue to support smaller search engines. :D
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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by Sajadi » 2022-05-08, 11:31

With Pale Moon 31 the presearch.org website search results will work flawless :D

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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by daemonspudguy » 2022-05-10, 23:24

Mojeek uses it's own algorithm, as does Brave Search if I remember correctly.

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Re: Will there be support for presearch.org engine?

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-05-11, 00:43

Sajadi wrote:
2022-05-08, 11:31
With Pale Moon 31 the presearch.org website search results will work flawless :D
And so it does - works just like a normal search engine now.
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