Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

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Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by mike0033 » 2023-05-20, 13:45

Hi I was wondering why Waterfox Classic felt so much faster than Basilisk and also why both modern and old extensions were supported on it

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by Likestofish » 2023-05-20, 16:24

Waterfox Classic had been optimized by its dev for a certain level of performance (it also had an optional multi-process-mode), specifically speed, at one time, and its extension support only extended up to Manifest v2 Webextensions. It will not be able to use the new Manifest v3 extensions that will become the norm in the future.

As you probably know, Waterfox Classic is no longer supported or updated by its devs, and if anyone is still using it, it should only be within a virtual machine. At this stage security-wise it has more holes in it than a cheesegrater. As Basilisk continues to develop and improve, Waterfox Classic users should consider migrating over.

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by Basilisk-Dev » 2023-05-20, 17:18

If you're curious on the technical details of why we don't implement multiprocess you can see the forum post by Moonchild here for more information.
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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by Al6bus » 2023-05-20, 18:46

@Basilisk-Dev
What do you personally think about multiprocessing?
Windows 7 Pro x64 - Pale Moon x64
We hope for multiprocessing

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by Basilisk-Dev » 2023-05-21, 18:09

Al6bus wrote:
2023-05-20, 18:46
@Basilisk-Dev
What do you personally think about multiprocessing?
I have mixed views on it. I understand why users want it. From the perspective of non-technical users I believe it's simple as "it makes the browser faster so why wouldn't you want it?".

From a technical perspective IPC can be tricky and can provide a lot opportunities for potential security vulnerabilities.

One thing that developers frequently forget about is that end users usually do not have powerful systems. Developers usually have i7/higher end Ryzen/Apple M1 systems with at least 16 GB or more of memory and super fast NVME SSD storage. I know plenty of non-technical people that are using Celeron or Pentium based systems with 4 gigs of ram and mechanical hard disks. Some of those systems were pretty recent too, a family friend of mine's system matches those specs and he purchased it brand new in 2021.

The true solution to sites getting slower and slower over time is to make web developers stop producing garbage that pulls in tens/hundreds of megabytes of CPU intensive JavaScript, trackers, and ads, but I'm not sure how to go about achieving that.
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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by RealityRipple » 2023-05-21, 21:11

Normalize CPU bottlenecks on site scripts, Google. :crazy:

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by moonbat » 2023-05-21, 23:08

Basilisk-Dev wrote:
2023-05-21, 18:09
The true solution to sites getting slower and slower over time is to make web developers stop producing garbage that pulls in tens/hundreds of megabytes of CPU intensive JavaScript, trackers, and ads, but I'm not sure how to go about achieving that.
Since that's not going to be possible, the next best thing is to use a proper adblocker so that at least you save some system resources by not loading useless ad and tracker scripts/media. Ad sites are also a common vector for malware so it's even more in one's interest to block them.
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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by BluesFanUK » 2023-06-19, 19:47

Firefox 56 has died on me, it constantly freezes and CloudFlare being on every single site now says my browser is incompatible.

I've tried PaleMoon, Basislik and Waterfox Classic.

PaleMoon just feels outdated, Basislik is a good combo of the two but won't support extentions at all, and Waterfox Classic is horrendous and freezes even more than FF56, to the point it freezes my computer.

I'm not sure where I go from here. I'm going to have to use one of the new rubbish browsers and use FF56 as a backup for when I need to use FlashGot, SaveImages, DTA etc.

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by andyprough » 2023-06-19, 22:47

BluesFanUK wrote:
2023-06-19, 19:47
Firefox 56 has died on me
Well, it died for everyone else about 5 years ago, so you did better than most I guess.

Did you need help with something, or are you just bemoaning the general state of internet browsing in 2023?

If you don't like the way Pale Moon looks, you are not alone, and thankfully there are a lot of people who have been making themes. You can find them right here: https://addons.palemoon.org/themes/

Personally I like the way it looks by default, but I am kind of a simple person with simple needs.

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by ron_1 » 2023-06-19, 23:17

Off-topic:
BluesFanUK wrote:
2023-06-19, 19:47
PaleMoon just feels outdated,
You mean back when the internet and browsers had some sanity left, unlike today?

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by moonbat » 2023-06-20, 05:38

BluesFanUK wrote:
2023-06-19, 19:47
PaleMoon just feels outdated
Oh noes, it doesn't use a dumbed down mobile phone UI stretched to fit a desktop like every other browser and website :roll:
Anything that doesn't have gigantic ugly flat icons that look like a pre-schooler drew them, wasted whitespace and pointless hamburger menu with everything crammed into it is of course 'outdated'.
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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by Basilisk-Dev » 2023-06-20, 14:00

BluesFanUK wrote:
2023-06-19, 19:47
Basislik is a good combo of the two but won't support extentions at all
Basilisk has a dedicated addons site. It can be found with a simple internet search. The link below should be helpful in your goal of adding extensions to the browser.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=basilisk+addons+site
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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by moonbat » 2023-06-21, 01:35

Basilisk-Dev wrote:
2023-06-20, 14:00
Basilisk has a dedicated addons site. It can be found with a simple internet search.
Don't bother, it's just another genius who expects to install modern FF extensions on it because they couldn't be bothered to visit the Basilisk website and read what the browser does and doesn't do.
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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by andyprough » 2023-06-21, 02:41

moonbat wrote:
2023-06-21, 01:35
Don't bother, it's just another genius who expects to install modern FF extensions on it because they couldn't be bothered to visit the Basilisk website and read what the browser does and doesn't do.
I don't know about that, I think @BluesFanUK may have been giving their honest impression of things:

1. "PaleMoon just feels outdated" - that's probably true to some people's eyes, although I look at its classic layout as a bonus and a beautiful thing
2. "Basislik is a good combo of the two but won't support extentions at all" - first part is kind of true, second part appears to be a lack of knowledge about Basilisk's extensions
3. "Waterfox Classic is horrendous and freezes even more than FF56, to the point it freezes my computer" - I'm sure that's quite true, especially given that Waterfox Classic is officially abandonware

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by moonbat » 2023-06-21, 02:45

andyprough wrote:
2023-06-21, 02:41
lack of knowledge about Basilisk's extensions
My point was that this would easily be addressed by visiting the Basilisk website; it amazes me that someone would decide to try a new browser without being in the least bit curious to know more about it first. There's a link to the addons site right on top, for example.
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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by andyprough » 2023-06-21, 02:52

moonbat wrote:
2023-06-21, 02:45
My point was that this would easily be addressed by visiting the Basilisk website; it amazes me that someone would decide to try a new browser without being in the least bit curious to know more about it first. There's a link to the addons site right on top, for example.
True, I just didn't look at it as a dishonest or malicious error - just an overlooking of the extensions page. At least @BluesFanUK mentioned it here where we can give the correct information rather than some commenters I see on ghacks or that I hear about on the Firefox subreddit who just spout lies and nonsense about Pale Moon without the ability to really engage them and correct them [not that they want to get the correct info - they are obviously just trolling].

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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by moonbat » 2023-06-21, 03:24

Frankly it is just too common these days to not bother to read what's right there and somehow find it more convenient to sign up for an account, then ask the same question and wait for a reply. Or ask a half assed question for troubleshooting without providing required information, then waste one's and everyone else's time by going back and forth as they ask for more information. On Reddit and Quora, people ask questions that are like reference information easily got through a web search.
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Re: Why does Waterfox Classic feel smoother than Basislik

Unread post by Basilisk-Dev » 2023-06-21, 16:27

moonbat wrote:
2023-06-21, 03:24
Frankly it is just too common these days to not bother to read what's right there and somehow find it more convenient to sign up for an account, then ask the same question and wait for a reply.
Off-topic:
While I don't know about BluesFanUK in particular since he did post here rather than say on Reddit or something. unfortunately I'm starting to agree. It seems as though as time goes on most people become lazier and lazier. I'm sure that short format videos like TikTok and YouTube Shorts don't help in this area.

The number of people who I've had come here asking why their bookmarks and addons disappeared when the first run page very clearly states that the profile directory has changed and gives you instructions on where to copy the files to fix it is infuriating.
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