Just an Observation

[Shadeclan]

I was curious about Basilisk, so I looked at some of the threads and the Basilisk home page and I think I get it.

In Firefox's heyday, they had several "versions" between development and production Firefox. They had the "alpha" release which was just before production and was used to catch any leftover bugs. They had "beta" which was, basically, their main user testing platform. On the bleeding edge, they had something called "Aurora" which was, more or less, a programmer testing version. I used to use Aurora and frequently contributed bug reports to its development. It also gave me a head's up warning about what was happening to my beloved old Firefox browser when Mozilla went askew.

From what MoonChild is saying, Basilisk is like Mozilla Aurora or perhaps somewhere between Aurora (programmer testing) and Mozilla Beta (user testing) - I don't know, I'm not using it. However, if I'm correct in my understanding, it may help PaleMoon future development if those of us who are tech-savvy use Basilisk and let MoonChild know on the forum about problems we encounter. Basilisk gives MoonChild the ability to test ideas and new technology for eventual integration into Pale Moon.

Therefore, Basilisk is NOT a Pale Moon replacement but Basilisk is what Pale Moon MAY become.

Is that a correct understanding

[Lootyhoof]

Basilisk and Pale Moon are two different browsers, which use the same backend (UXP) as base. One will not become the other. In many cases there are extensions that target one and not the other, too. It's just a matter of preference which one people decide to use.

[Michaell]

Yea, he sort of has it but not exactly. Basilisk is/was a test app for the transition to UXP. IMO, it really could be dropped now because Pale Moon is the best test of UXP. Even Firefox doesn't use Australis anymore and extension compatibility isn't the same for web extensions. A better option would be for someone to develop an app that they will support. Then they could test with that and PM. And I know about the one under development but that won't be good for user feedback.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Off-topic:
Grumbles while walking by.

[Shadeclan]

Yea, he sort of has it but not exactly. Basilisk is/was a test app for the transition to UXP. IMO, it really could be dropped now because Pale Moon is the best test of UXP...

Is MoonChild not using Basilisk for development anymore, then?

[Shadeclan]

Off-topic:
Grumbles while walking by.

Sorry, Tobin. Probably an old subject that has been rehashed to death. I've been away from the forums for awhile and I'm just trying to get some understanding, here.

[Moonchild]

Try to use search.

[Shadeclan]

Try to use search.

I did, my friend. There is a lot on this subject. Just didn't have time to go through it all and some of the things I read seemed to imply the things I suggested in the post.

Please don't let this post take away from your development work. I'm just trying to determine if I can help Pale Moon development by downloading and using Basilisk, that's all.

[adesh]

You can help Pale Moon development by using Pale Moon itself. Probably testing unstable builds giving feedback.
Basilisk is altogether a different browser. Think of it like a pre-Quantum Firefox. It may appeal to some due to its UI and other features. Both the browsers are based on the same codebase but feature set is different. Also, Basilisk is more of perpetual beta kind of software rather than a finished stable product (although generally it works really well and actually better than more mainstream _stable_ products).

[Shadeclan]

You can help Pale Moon development by using Pale Moon itself. Probably testing unstable builds giving feedback ...

Well, I AM a fanatical Pale Moon user - says so on my forehead! Be happy to be a beta tester.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Basilisk in general is a rolling release that is relatively close to trunk built at luls in development. It is not updated as frequently as a Pale Moon Unstable release.

I dunno though, I think eventually we should just do Basilisk based on the Defacto-Stable branch like everyone else (meaning me). But that is my opinion. I may contribute now and again to Basilisk but it is not my project. It is purely Moonchild's. Pale Moon, though, we all love and work on and IS the application that binds us together even when one of us has a theoretically competing project. YES I WILL RELEASE NAVIGATOR SOON!

Off-topic:
Heh, maybe I can just claim that Borealis is competing with Basilisk not Pale Moon LOL

[Shadeclan]

... Pale Moon, though, we all love and work on and IS the application that binds us together even when one of us has a theoretically competing project ...

And there is the crux of the whole thing, I guess.

In all likelihood, Pale Moon will be my go-to browser until the day I die - that is, unless MoonChild has a stroke or a brain tumor or something and goes all Australis on us . Even in that unlikely event, I'm pretty sure someone else would pick up the flag and run with it.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

After working with Basilisk code.. The Australis technology is even worse than I ever thought. I mean it was terrible for its destructive influence but it is literally a bunch of god damned spaghetti code. When we ported the Tycho Weave Client backend to UXP and I personally ripped out and replaced the Sync Client frontend in Basilisk based on Pale Moon code.. GOD DAMN.. It was like pulling teeth to try and even untangle JUST Sync UI components from Australis.

The way I implemented the older UI components was in the proper XUL way but in the context of Australis and it was ONLY not as painful because I wasn't doing it as an extension. That would have been just as fucked as doing it directly as what I ripped out.

Personally, I would like to de-australisize Basilisk on a level of default UI controls and just leave enough in there to support Australis targeting Extensions.. But probably shouldn't bother at this point unless it were to become absolutely necessary.

NOW of course this wouldn't change the Australis visual aesthetic, I am just talking about how specific toolbar buttons are physically constructed.

You can check it all out in my personal commit history on the UXP Github Repository.

[Shadeclan]

... Personally, I would like to de-australisize Basilisk on a level of default UI controls and just leave enough in there to support Australis targeting Extensions.. But probably shouldn't bother at this point unless it were to become absolutely necessary ...

You know, I had no idea that Basilisk had anything to do with Australis. Guess I should have read more up on it, like MoonChild suggested.

In that case, I would be totally uninterested in doing anything with Basilisk. I reached the limits of my patience with Australis years ago and have no wish to repeat the experience.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

His name is Moonchild not MoonChild or any other combination of casing. In any event, Basilisk has a reason for being that I have covered before elsewhere on the forum. It has every right to exist as a project and product. You should go forth and refresh or learn.

See: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22041&p=166447#p166447

[Shadeclan]

His name is Moonchild not MoonChild or any other combination of casing. In any event, Basilisk has a reason for being that I have covered before elsewhere on the forum. It has every right to exist as a project and product. You should go forth and refresh or learn.

Yes, O Wise One, I shall go forth! ...

The casing is a peculiar habit of mine. No offense intended. I shall repent and mend my ways!

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Here is another one: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21622&p=164356#p164356 Though keep in mind I was responding to some little dumbass at the time.

Seems to happen a lot actually...

[Shadeclan]

Here is another one: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21622&p=164356#p164356 Though keep in mind I was responding to some little dumbass at the time.

I have a real issue with the "My Way or the Highway" people - possibly because I'm usually on the highway end of the encounter - but that was a very excellent response to somebody who seemed to be intent on twisting everything around that Moonchild said and turning him into some sort of self-absorbed tyrant. Let's see THAT guy build a quality browser and offer it for free - unlikely, methinks.

Anyway, thanks to Tobin and everyone for taking a few minutes to satisfy my curiosity. I now have a better grasp of what Basilisk is and why I'm never going to have it on my computer. AND, as soon as they give me back my access to GitHub (imagine that - me, a developer and I can't even get to GitHub!), I'll be using Pale Moon, Unstable Version - pointless to do so without access to the issue tracker.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

There is a benefit to having Basilisk handy though. Since it is currently built in development luls it can be used to compare behavior with actual rendering and js. It is a point of reference. Same could be said about comparing Firefox extensions.. Since both used to be Firefox at disparate points in it's life cycle.. That could be useful. Also of course for people who need EME (once that gets fixed) and for WebRTC and the few other bits that make it unique compared to other UXP applications.

So don't discount Basilisk. Keep in mind that like there were a bunch of Australis refugees wanting the Firefox 4-28 UI in general.. There were plenty of Quantum-Photon and post-extension refugees that stayed on ESR52 for way too long.. Basilisk serves those as well in ways Pale Moon can't or that the Pale Moon userbase wouldn't let it (and rightly so in most cases).

Is it something I personally want to use? No way in hell.. Is it something I initially hated with a passion.. Yes. Is it something that can be useful not only as a perspective in development and for other reasons and users? Absolutely. It should continue and should not be shat upon just because it exists. (and yes it took me a long time to come to and admit that conclusion.)

[Shadeclan]

Well, Tobin, as you pointed out in the post you referenced earlier, the whole idea is to provide interface and workflow flexibility in a quality browser. For Australis people ( ), that's Basilisk. For Real Men, that's Pale Moon ...