"Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work Topic is solved

This board is for discussions, bug reports, etc. for pre-releases of the v27 milestone codenamed "Tycho".

Since the beta phase is over, this board is closed for new posts/topics.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 18:22

What I plan to do depends on what the developer does.. If they bring the extension directly to Pale Moon then that is that.

Otherwise, I could fork it and make some modifications for Pale Moon specifically and maybe convert it from Bootstrap to pure toolkit and eval it for inclusion to have it replace the broken toolkit downloads window.. So it will be about for others besides Pale Moon.

It all depends on what they do and how much work there is.. In it's current state it is a great extension but wouldn't work so well as a bundled feature replacement due to it's bootstrap nature.

As a note: I am really kinda against the whole bundled extension thing.. That is why for Tycho I fully integrated the status bar as a true browser component.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby GreenGeek » Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 18:52

You could improve the Library window by either adding a button to the existing toolbar to hide/open side panel or add a toolbar (or tab bar) with buttons to open each panel (or top level node).

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby win7-7 » Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 19:36

I created proposal about Pale Moon 27 / Tycho support. If anybody else has something to say to proposal in Bitbucket now would be good time to do so. Matt A. Tobin you might also want to say something if you want to give more details to dev. Although I did say dev that if he need more details he could register to Pale Moon forums and ask here.

https://bitbucket.org/ungram/downloads_ ... ho-support
Last edited by win7-7 on Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 19:47, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 19:39

Off-topic:
Stop calling me "Mattobin" You may address me as "Matt A. Tobin" or simply as "Tobin"...

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby win7-7 » Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 20:03

Off-topic:
Sorry Matt A. Tobin.


Now everybody has to wait what dev will say to proposal about Pale Moon 27 support.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby Antonius32 » Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 22:15

GreenGeek wrote:You could improve the Library window by either adding a button to the existing toolbar to hide/open side panel or add a toolbar (or tab bar) with buttons to open each panel (or top level node).

You can toggle the Bookmarks/History Sidebar by middle-clicking the Bookmarks/History Menu button.

Edit: I just realized that this still doesn't give you one-click access to your downloads list, which is probably what you had in mind. There's no such thing as a Downloads Sidebar...
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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby GreenGeek » Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 22:48

Sidebar or panel should be descriptive enough since we know we're referring to Library. Even if the toggle main sidebar button was still there, it wouldn't be obvious enough. Need a button in the Library window. Tabs would be even more obvious.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby Antonius32 » Tue, 20 Sep 2016, 09:33

GreenGeek wrote:Sidebar or panel should be descriptive enough since we know we're referring to Library. Even if the toggle main sidebar button was still there, it wouldn't be obvious enough. Need a button in the Library window. Tabs would be even more obvious.

Sorry, I misread/misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the main window's Sidebar.
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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby DAOWAce » Wed, 21 Sep 2016, 00:38

Deprecating one of the core features of PM vs Firefox.. oh boy.

The library based downloads window is absolutely terrible. It brings up your history, for one, so you have to navigate that awful mess of a window with bookmarks and other crap in it. Plus (from memory) there was no easy way to clear it, or have it clear automatically (can't quite remember). All I remember is having to periodically clear out a whole bunch of downloads I wanted cleared immediately upon completion. (Chrome does this and I hate it, but at least that has a dedicated download tab so it's slightly better)

Since history is a new window (which is generally fullscreen), it brings you off the website you're downloading something on, which is bad. The classic downloads window is a small box you can immediately see at a glance, and have it auto-close. The library window doesn't do that.

And lastly.. by not bringing up the downloads window at all, you have to rely on something like a toolbar progress bar, which I've never once used in any browser at any point in time. That just takes up space on the UI and makes it more busy when a download is going. (Chrome also does this and the toolbar is a gigantic status bar.. which we have to manually close too!)

If you're going to convert the code from that addon in order to preserve the legacy window, then that's great.. but I did use it prior to switching to PM and it wasn't quite the same (especially since it had issues with skins.. and I also use a now legacy skin). If it is integrated into the core, I do hope it will be in a better end state than that addon. But even if it's just a direct port, I'll gladly take it over the awful library download one.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Wed, 21 Sep 2016, 02:35

As has been stated before the Toolkit downloads ui currently in the codebase is busted through no fault on our part and there is no simple way to fix it. We do have more critical blockers to one legacy UI to worry about not when there is a completely working UI to handle downloads.

I am not ready to call it a complete wash on never coming back either. But it is not a blocker for development and release. Everyone needs to be patient about this.. You will get your UI either built in or in extension form. I will make sure of it because I too shall not go without.

So put the pitch forks away and calm down.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby win7-7 » Wed, 21 Sep 2016, 08:55

Quote from ungram

I'm amenable to retaining ESR 38 support as long as feasible (should be a while, since I'm not adding new functionality which depends on new APIs). Indeed, install.rdf currently has "<em:minVersion>38.0</em:minVersion>", though I've only recently tested back to ESR 45.

So far as I know, it shouldn't depend either way on Australis or the lack thereof. However, I've not tested it. Conceptually, there's no reason it should. I began this add-on in the pre-Australis period and certainly never intentionally modified it to work with Australis.

The bootstrap part does contain some important functionality which I'd have to see how would be re-implemented in a more traditional XUL addon. The main two user-visible features/options in the bootstrap half are open automatically on new downloads and remove completed downloads. The former has to live somewhere outside the XUL window definition and the latter causes lots of artifacts if it only works with the window open.

I'm also puzzled why avoid bootstrap add-ons to begin with, even with Pale Moon's goals (towards which I'm sympathetic). I do see Matt A. Tobin's reponse to his effect at the forum link but he doesn't explain why, so it's hard for me to gauge how to proceed or what the specific objections are.


Matt A. Tobin can you register to bitbucket and give some additional details to dev about reasons that you don't like bootstrapped add-ons? I can't answer to this and you are leader of Add-ons Team of Pale Moon so you are better positioned to answer to this.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Wed, 21 Sep 2016, 09:58

My general dislike for bootstrap is a personal preference.. However, for this specific case bootstrap init doesn't work outside of the extension space. If it were to be added properly as an intergrated component it needs standard Toolkit methods.

The bootstrap hack.. cause that is what it is.. can only be accomplished as a function of the add-ons manager's xpi provider.

So while it is perfectly valid, through nothing more than it is a stable long running hack, for extensions it can't be used for actual components. Lucky too cause it would be a mess otherwise.

If he wants to actually support us he should get a hold of me in a real time communication medium because forum or issue tracker back and forth can get tedious. Our IRC channel would be a good place.

There does seem to be some confusion though... If he is going to maintain his extension for Pale Moon then it can stay bootstrap.. We don't really care (unless he wants to rewrite it as a WebExtension or Jetpack then well support would be non-existant).. Second.. To support us directly they would need to add an application block for us in install.rdf as well as likely upload his extension to our add-ons site.. Why? Because AMO has a bug in it where it won't present accurate version compatibility for download IF the Firefox version was lowered.. Tycho is still going to set compatibility for extensions at the magic 24.9 number so if he lowered the Firefox version to 24 or whatever it would be a bit glitchy for installation and for updates.

Mozilla is aware of these bugs on AMO and has chosen not to even attempt to fix them.

So yeah he really needs to get in contact with me as there are just all kinds of little things that need to be worked out if he intends on supporting Firefox until they RIP OUT regular extension support while also supporting us. It does complicate things.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby Moonchild » Sun, 25 Sep 2016, 19:54

DAOWAce wrote:The library based downloads window is absolutely terrible. It brings up your history, for one, so you have to navigate that awful mess of a window with bookmarks and other crap in it. Plus (from memory) there was no easy way to clear it, or have it clear automatically (can't quite remember). All I remember is having to periodically clear out a whole bunch of downloads I wanted cleared immediately upon completion. (Chrome does this and I hate it, but at least that has a dedicated download tab so it's slightly better)

Since history is a new window (which is generally fullscreen), it brings you off the website you're downloading something on, which is bad. The classic downloads window is a small box you can immediately see at a glance, and have it auto-close. The library window doesn't do that.

And lastly.. by not bringing up the downloads window at all, you have to rely on something like a toolbar progress bar, which I've never once used in any browser at any point in time. That just takes up space on the UI and makes it more busy when a download is going. (Chrome also does this and the toolbar is a gigantic status bar.. which we have to manually close too!)


The downloads panel has an immediately visible indicator in the navigation bar with an indication of activity. If that's not enough then you can use the status bar at the bottom to use the status bar version of the indicator (which can have additional summary text). Both of those offer a panel with downloads overview with one click if you want more details. And as a bonus, it will not use up any space that your toolkit window would take up (the toolkit window doesn't magically not take up screen real estate). For the people with enough space to have a toolkit window next to their browser window, the library window is an option if you want something with more details and progress bars for each download.

I don't necessarily see how disastrous losing this feature that was already legacy for us for a long time (and causing confusion with downloads being cleared or not because 2 download lists...) is going to be apart from people just not wanting anything at all to change. It's not like we're doing away with the downloads feature or having an overview of downloads. It'll just be a little different.
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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby coffeebreak » Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 11:28

Been following this Bitbucket issue (Pale Moon 27/ Tycho support) and noticed the developer of Downloads Window recently put an update on AMO -- v0.6.3. It has the PM application block and presumably Tobin's earlier input, but doesn't appear to incorporate the last suggestion (since the 'Clear Downloads' button doesn't work). At present, nothing is posted on Bitbucket to indicate why.

Is there any updated news on the developer's intentions here?

(Clear Downloads' button does work in v0.6.2 btw, and it installs fine on Tycho with the application block added manually.)

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 12:06

As you have noted.. I am working directly with the developer. He likely has a life outside of his extension but thus far there is no indication he is ignoring me. We will see.. But I promise you that something will be in place by the time Tycho is RTM'd.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby coffeebreak » Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 12:31

Good to hear. Thank you, Tobin.

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby back2themoon » Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 23:12

DAOWAce wrote:The library based downloads window is absolutely terrible. It brings up your history, for one, so you have to navigate that awful mess of a window with bookmarks and other crap in it. Plus (from memory) there was no easy way to clear it, or have it clear automatically (can't quite remember). All I remember is having to periodically clear out a whole bunch of downloads I wanted cleared immediately upon completion.

That has always been my main issue with the newer UI. I think the browser.download.manager.retention=1 setting (and a few others) have no effect so it'd be great if you manage to include this functionality in the new UI. No need to jump through hoops to bring back the old UI exactly the way it was (wouldn't want Pale Moon "Classic Theme Restorer" jobs :crazy: ). It's clear that the work required is disproportionate.
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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby JodyThornton » Thu, 06 Oct 2016, 01:52

I was able to get this plugin extension to work on the v27 Beta. It provides a classic-like downloads window.
:)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... ds-window/
Last edited by Moonchild on Thu, 06 Oct 2016, 10:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby quroe » Fri, 07 Oct 2016, 07:45

I switched to Pale Moon for "Classic Downloads Window" and "FindBar".
I'm also using "Preserve Download Modification Timestamp".
RedRamGT wrote:The primary reason I switched from Firefox to Pale Moon is the "Classic Downloads Window". I use the "Preserve Download Modification Timestamp" extension (by Sparky Bluefang) to keep the original file date and time for downloads, and that seems to only work with the Classic Downloads Window.

The new downloads API doesn't provide neccesary information.
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... 5&start=50
"DownThemAll!" can set last-modified time,but downloaded links are unaffected by "browser.visited_color".
And I want to use Pale Moon's download function...

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Re: "Classic Downloads Window" does not seem to work

Unread postby DAOWAce » Mon, 10 Oct 2016, 18:42

Matt A Tobin wrote:You will get your UI either built in or in extension form. I will make sure of it because I too shall not go without.

Thank you.

Moonchild wrote:The downloads panel has an immediately visible indicator in the navigation bar with an indication of activity. If that's not enough then you can use the status bar at the bottom to use the status bar version of the indicator (which can have additional summary text).

I briefly stated that I do not use the 'progress bar' stuff in the UI (for any program for that matter). It takes up space when inactive and is a visual distraction when active. I guess you can blame me for growing up with internet explorer and having a separate dedicated window for showing my download I can easily check and get out of my way when I don't need to see it.

FWIW, here's a shot of how my UI looks: http://i.imgur.com/7CeNtuD.png

quroe wrote:I'm also using "Preserve Download Modification Timestamp".
RedRamGT wrote:I use the "Preserve Download Modification Timestamp" extension (by Sparky Bluefang) to keep the original file date and time for downloads, and that seems to only work with the Classic Downloads Window.


..I wish I knew this existed years ago.

I like to keep timestamps for archival and referral purposes (just as I like to keep ALL browser history). Thankfully a lot of downloaded stuff came in archives.. but half the time they didn't have the original timestamps kept when archived.

Still, I suppose I shouldn't start using this now, especially if the code for it is going away in PM 27. Don't want to get used to something then lose it right after..


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