Problem with Self-Destructing Cookies addon

[dark_moon]

Done: https://forums.informaction.com/viewtop ... 743#p83743

And i thanks for support Pale Moon 27 on AMO.

[Falna]

Has someone notified Gorhill about Tycho yet? He may want to do testing on his own...

...and maybe he might be interested in adding cookie deletion on tab closure too?

[dark_moon]

Nice idea. I ask him

[wost_]

Could file existence check for package.json and harness-options.json be included while parsing an .xpi archive? This would reduce confusion when an SDK extension installs correctly but doesn't work. It could throw a notification just like in case of missing GUID or non-matching min/maxVersion.

[Moonchild]

Could file existence check for package.json and harness-options.json be included while parsing an .xpi archive? This would reduce confusion when an SDK extension installs correctly but doesn't work. It could throw a notification just like in case of missing GUID or non-matching min/maxVersion.

Patches to this effect are welcome! We're not at release level yet and this will be something we'd preferably want to include before release, but fixing the browser core is priority for us right now, so any help welcome

[VLMin]

Hi there riiis. I looked at CookieKeeper a bit, and I've used Cookie Whitelist, With Buttons, and and off for years. It has been my second choice after Self-destructing Cookies. There is a feature in Self-destructing Cookies that I don't see mentioned in this discussion and haven't seen offered elsewhere. That feature is explicit permission for 1st-party cookies. This is not the same functionality as disallowing 3rd-party cookies; there are some sites, which one wishes NEVER to allow to set ANY cookies! Self-destructing Cookies actually adds this as a fourth cookie setting (along with allow, session, and block), which may be seen in about-permissions and in the cookie exceptions dialog.

Am I overvaluing this feature?

To the dev team, what might be required to add such functionality to PM? I cannot assess how much work is involved. But this does seem useful, and since PM is on its own dev path independent of Firefox, there is no reason to remain within the now-ancient limitations of the latter.

Also, while I'm on the topic of cookie exceptions, would the dev team consider adding functionality to export and import cookie exceptions, independent of any action WRT cookies per se? That would make it very easy to move a PM installation from one system to another, among other pleasant outcomes.

Thanks for your consideration!

[coffeebreak]

...functionality to export and import cookie exceptions, independent of any action WRT cookies per se? That would make it very easy to move a PM installation from one system to another...

You can copy over the files cookies.sqlite (for cookies) and permissions.sqlite (for cookie exceptions) from one installation or profile to another. This has always worked perfectly for me.

[VLMin]

Thank you, coffeebreak. I have found that when I want the cookie exceptions, I want only those, and not all the other permissions. Or, perhaps I misunderstand what is in that permissions.sqlite file? What tool(s) might one use to look inside an sqlite file? Are they editable by mere mortals?

[coffeebreak]

Off-topic:
VLMin, There are such tools but I don't have experience using them and can't offer recommendations. I would like to suggest though, if you want to pursue the question further with the community you take it to the general support board, since this thread is dedicated to PM 27 issues.

[VLMin]

Ah, good idea, thanks!

[Pallid Planetoid]

Just today learned of this bad news which I have to say is news that has certainly ruined my day.

The alternatives mentioned do not provide up-front tracking cookie blocking or local storage clearing and do not remove cookies when tabs are closed. They also appear to all be far more time consuming and cumbersome to use. It's really sad that the Palemoon27 direction would have to impact what I consider hands-down the best cookie blocking add-on available period. I love Pale Moon, there is no comparison, it's the only browser to use period end of story - so WHY THIS!! regarding arguably my most important extension aside from possibly ABL (to head-off any possible confusion , I'm not saying "WHY THIS!!" because I don't understand why, it's because of Tycho (I know), I'm saying why this extension has to be one that just happens to be incompatible with Tycho and again the why is in terms of "bad luck" not about the technical aspects of why )

The uMatrix alternative, "delete non-blocked cookies a specific time after they have been used" is no answer. There are cookies I need to keep and I don't want to have to bother with adding them to an exception file like all other extension require as opposed to one click that SDC provides me to accomplish this. And SDC informs me if the site I'm currently at will keep the cookies or not based on the icon for those sites of which I want to stay logged-in after leaving.

It's common knowledge by those who use SDC that it's a unique extension that has no comparison as far as any other add-ons that can do what SDC does.

I loath the thought of having to stay with PM26.x and lose the security, enhancements and bug fixes (I'll certainly delay as long as I feel I reasonably can even if I do finally update which I'm not so sure I'll do anyway at least until I can find something that really IS comparable to SDC)

[New Tobin Paradigm]

That is of course your choice.

Jetpack extensions are a dead end technology any way you look at it from all sides and has been for a while now. MOST developers with an ounce of talent has denounced it and did not rewrite their extensions after a good number of them converted to Bootstrap (Restartless). There was nothing that we could feasibly do about it.. If you want the extension.. You should contact the developer to rewrite SDC to proper Toolkit or Bootstrap using supported technologies for Pale Moon.

I must once again remind users that after Pale Moon 27 releases there will be NO support for Pale Moon 26.x what so ever. You will have lost the ability to have your questions answered or your issues resolved. Anything one may get afterword will be at our sufferance.

I encourage all users to not continue using unsupported versions especially when the codebase it's self will be deemed obsolete in any case. Be it 25.8 or god forbid 24.x..

The future of the extension and general add-on ecosystem is completely in your hands.. I have stated this before and it is more true now than it has ever been. If no one steps up to bring their extensions to Pale Moon and additionally no one else takes the time and forks or rewrites them.. Well, that will be how it is.. This is all in your hands.. We promote choice.. But sometimes choices have consequences and moreso choices have responsibilities.. Keep that in mind.

The great thing about Pale Moon specifically is that WE are the last stop for the potential of all the great extensions you know and love.. There is no such potential in Firefox's future.. Damn sure there isn't in Chrome or Microsoft's Browser. It is time to stop being mere users and consumers.. Time to take action.. Time to make a choice and make a difference. If you all want a bright future for Pale Moon and the add-ons potential that comes with it.. You guys MUST make it happen.

[Thehandyman1957]

Matt A Tobin, It is time to stop being mere users and consumers.. Time to take action.. Time to make a choice and make a difference.

Off-topic:
Hmmm, I'm gonna try to be as delicate and gentle as possible about this post. So please don't take it the wrong way.

I understand that it is not your responsibility to make those extensions work for us.

I understand how blessed we were to have a browser that would give us the best of both worlds for a time.

I also understand that by staying with an older version of Pale Moon can lead to security holes and lack of support.

I get it.

But that being said. There seems to be a small disconnect between you, who code and us, who have absolutely no idea at all.

There are some folk who can look at instructions and simply understand what to do and how it works. I have this gift when it comes to

Electrical wiring and mechanics. I have been a handyman, maintenance man for almost 20 years and before M$ decided it was going to be their

operating system instead of ours I actually had my own computer business and fixed computers up to major hardware repairs and such.

These things made sense to me and even though I had to learn how to do some things I understood the instructions and things made sense to me.

But that being said, I have absolutely no, nadda, zero, understanding of coding and it makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

I cannot wrap my head around even what you would consider the most simple stuff. Even Linux drove me crazy because of this same issue.

You cannot use Linux except for the simplest stuff without using the dreaded terminal box. It's like learning a completely different language.

Now you folks "coders" have a gift of understanding how that stuff works and that's awesome. We are blessed to have what you have given us just as much

as you are blessed by someone that built your house and knew what the heck he was doing when he wired it.

But us electricians don't tell you that you need to learn to wire your own dang house when something goes wrong.

No, we understand that you simply either don't have the time, or understanding to do those things

and we are happy to do it for you for a small fee.

The same needs to go for you guys when you tell us over and over again that we need to learn to code to fix the add on problems we are dealing with.

First off, I don't have the time to code even if I had the understanding. I work all day and when I come home I have responsibilities to deal with.

I get about 3 hours to just relax and rest up for the next day. I'm sure that this is the case for just about 80% of us.

Secondly, unlike electricians, who I can find in the yellow pages or Google.

I cannot just pay someone to fix software like I could if I needed some plumbing done.

All I'm saying is please remember this when hammering us about learning code.

I have no trouble at all with paying or donating for the things you guys do. And I will now that my finances are

finally getting back to where they need to be even though I cannot use your newest browser (yes I know it's my choice).

I still feel like it's the right thing to do. You have worked hard to give me a great browser and you are deserving of something in return.

But learning code is never going to happen for me and probably 80% of the folks on this forum. If I could, I would already be doing it.

So go a little easy on us, we are not just a bunch of kids sitting at home with mom and pop paying the bills and nothing to do.

I have great respect for you and what you do, please do the same for us.

It's too bad that most people have it in their mind that software should be free. I really think this is a flawed idea.

I bet you spend more time on this project than I do at work. But yet most of us think this should be free. Nothing is free.

Somewhere somebody is paying for it, either out of their own pocket or their own time.

I agree that it really is time for some of us to step up to the plate and help out wherever we can.

And if someone out there does know how to code for add on's and we could pay them something to help with

these broken add on's then perhaps we could make a way on Pale Moon for that to be possible. Just an idea.

[half-moon]

I agree with Thehandyman1957,

I myself tried to learn a couple different languages and no matter what, nothing sticks in my mind. Some of us can't learn how to code and I think that needs to be kept in mind.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

No one is born learning how to code.. I would also argue that my strengths aren't EXACTLY in coding but noticing patterns, strong investment of history, and a fantastic sense of design.

For instance, I am quite terrible at C++ and Javascript. I don't particularly like the languages only the concept for the languages. Also, since I started 2 years ago working on this project I have had to not only learn some basics for those primary languages but also how makefiles/autotools work as well as the completely unique mozbuild written in python works and I have only barely scratched the surface of this. Yes I was completely aware and dabbled in Mozilla code for some years but never really put my mind to actually doing something worthwhile let alone helping manage a complete codebase like this. As my Primary Responsibility is as Administrator and Coordinator of Secondary Services.. I bring my more defined talents of systems administration and web design to the table. Learning PHP for real, for instance (which I had been also dabbling in) as well as CSS and most recently python.

I never really before had a need to go much beyond fiddling around with all these programing and scripting languages past what I needed to accomplish a very simple task. This still shows quite a bit. But what I really bring to the table is an absolute commitment to the original idealized mozilla concept as well as observational knowledge of how things work from a particular perspective. That and a level of adaptability I wasn't ever sure I had. Not to mention strong concept planning skills with a dash of obsessive behavior to do whatever it is I can to ensure that this particular dream will never die.

I spent several years observing and trying to find an entry point on the SeaMonkey project but that never really amounted to much more than bug triage. Quite sad how that project has turned out.. I have reoccurring feeling that maybe if I started seriously learning sooner maybe I could have motivated others and perhaps saved SeaMonkey.. But It didn't happen that way and it will always be something I regret. I will NOT allow the same thing to happen to the Pale Moon project. So I help in as many areas as I can. I have almost completely abandoned every other project for this one because I believe without a good, acceptable, and usable web browser.. What is the point to many of the other things I was attempting to do.

Not having the time to sit down and learn something is very well taken but flat out saying one can't learn something is unacceptable.. Everyone CAN learn. Not everyone has the time, granted but they CAN do it. Not learning something is a choice and I will attempt to not comment much on the decisions of that choice as long as it is understood and accepted that it IS a choice NOT an inability. Your electrician story doesn't quite hold a charge because anyone can learn to be an electrician or an electrical engineer or a computer programmer or medical training.. So.. Yeah. Of which I know a bit of all of those just not to an extent that someone doing them professionally does. As for being a computer programmer and learning to code.. I still argue I am a designer not a programmer but that doesn't hold much substantive evidence anymore.

Regardless, everyone always has their strengths and weaknesses as well as their own excuses. I simply want to urge and maybe provoke people into at least giving it a shot. Believe it or not something very simple or small can make all the difference. Not asking anyone to take charge of 14 million lines of code (Who would be crazy enough to attempt that ) but this 'I'm just a poor little user' attitude just isn't gonna cut it in the long run if everyone takes that position.

Firefox did not start out with a bunch of extensions.. Over time people who enjoyed the product created extensions for it to accomplish tasks. We at least have a great amount of inherited compatibility as well as a whole range of perfectly working extensions as well as some that only need a few tweaks to work with us.. So while we have to create the systems to support our project our selves we don't have to completely start from nothing when it comes to extensions, themes, etc.

Do what you can, when you can. That is ALL I am asking for.

[Thehandyman1957]

but this 'I'm just a poor little user' attitude just isn't gonna cut it in the long run if everyone takes that position

I think you missed the point entirely. And your derogatory attitude towards us "poor little users" (your words, not mine)
shows a lack of understanding of other peoples abilities, strengths and inabilities.
My point was, not everybody can do what you do. Some folks just aren't wired that way.
But we can do other things that are just as worth while and important.
I understand your zeal, but I wish you would take a moment to see how you come across to others.
Your comments show an attitude of superiority, and a disdain of anything you think they should know or be doing.
Your lack of empathy towards others is disturbing to say the least. I do not find this attitude in Moon Child or any other posters on this forum.
I will leave off with this as it is a bit harsh but I feel needed to be said. I will not respond to you again.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

I do oh so love how people can parse a long post which covers a wide swath of ground and extract one small element they disagree with and make a big to-do about it focusing on that one aspect and nothing else that was said negating the the acutual message and spirit of said post.

In any event.. a good part of these last 6 or so posts are mostly off topic so please return to the subject at hand.