Unfortunately, I cannot continue usage of Pale Moon

Talk about code development, features, specific bugs, enhancements, patches, and similar things.
Forum rules
Please keep everything here strictly on-topic.
This board is meant for Pale Moon source code development related subjects only like code snippets, patches, specific bugs, git, the repositories, etc.

This is not for tech support! Please do not post tech support questions in the "Development" board!
Please make sure not to use this board for support questions. Please post issues with specific websites, extensions, etc. in the relevant boards for those topics.

Please keep things on-topic as this forum will be used for reference for Pale Moon development. Expect topics that aren't relevant as such to be moved or deleted.
User avatar
shrinkshooter
New to the forum
New to the forum
Posts: 1
Joined: 2022-04-06, 14:11

Unfortunately, I cannot continue usage of Pale Moon

Unread post by shrinkshooter » 2022-04-06, 14:40

Hello everyone. I only just registered in order to say this, and I will vanish into the wind in short order, as well.

I'm not a tech person when it comes to web stuff (I am, however, very much a tech person in regards to OSs and using programs, in case anyone would like to dismiss what follows as "are you sure you're not infected?" Yes I'm sure). I'm simply an average everyday browser user. I first began using PM a number of years ago, explicitly because I didn't want to use a Google browser and I was tired of the nonsense that the bureaucrats behind Firefox kept making worse. It did everything I needed and wanted it to, and all was well...but then, maybe 2 years ago, things started falling apart and I still don't know why. It doesn't actually matter, because they've only gotten worse, and I have no choice but to switch to a different browser. I wish I didn't need to, as I did use PM to avoid FF and Chrome, but now the hunt begins anew.

At first it was only a very minor annoyance: Youtube loading slowly (yes I'm aware of the posts about it on here and the explanations that it's "not Pale Moon's fault") or the odd webpage simply not loading at all and saying "Done" at the bottom. Now, it's everywhere: Youtube takes ages to load, and ads have run on YT for over a year or more, and cannot be stopped (adblock did used to block them on here). Imgur stopped loading anything except the background color entirely; then it fixed itself, then broke again, then fixed itself. Any random webpages that use any amount of Javascript for displaying content or themes are liable to simply not load half the time. As an example, I just attempted to view this link, and it's simply one example out of hundreds that absolutely don't display for me. The long and short of it is that pages often either load slowly or don't display, and over the course of the past 2 years I've tolerated it despite its accelerating pace. I can't do it anymore.

No, my browser is not heavily modified at all (it has only adblock on it, and disabling that doesn't ever fix non-displaying pages), and yes, I always update the browser whenever the notice pops up, which is every several weeks or so. I'm not looking for a fix, my willingness to attempt to resolve this is exhausted at this point, but I felt the need to say this so somebody would at least understand what's going on, in the event that people don't bother to come here and register simply to explain all this, and rather just switch browsers and call it a day. I understand there is effort and intent that goes into the development and maintenance of PM and I'm not here to denigrate that, but in the same breath, there is absolutely no way anyone can sit here and say "none of this is the fault of Pale Moon." I've been using it for years and I've been getting the same behavior on more than one platform, with re-installations. The point is that something is wrong. I don't know what, I don't know why, and I'm not here to debug things. I understand that this post isn't helpful in narrowing down whatever the issue(s) is, but the point to drive home is that not everything is totally fine and okay, and I believe if there are any people who claim so, they are incorrect. I don't know what began the downward slide two-ish years ago and I don't know why it's gotten worse since then. But the link I posted above is the breaking point for me, and now I need to switch.

I'm sorry this isn't more helpful in a practical sense. If the people working on Pale Moon understand or at least suspect the idea that there is *some* central issue with the operation of Pale Moon, then this post is redundant. I'm sure there are a number of people out there for whom PM works totally fine, and that great -- for them. I very much strongly doubt that I am the only person who has had these problems, however, and like it or not the end user is going to pick something most of the time based on two things: 1) does it work and 2) is it easy for me to use? If 1 is "no" and 2 *becomes* "no" because it requires effort in order to diagnose and fix, then you get someone switching browsers.

That's pretty much my piece. Apologies if this sounds too ranty, Pale Moon has caused me an ever increasing number of frustrations for some time, and there hasn't really been anyone to vent to; I just didn't want to switch to something else. Hopefully this doesn't rain on anyone's parade too hard.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35405
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: Unfortunately, I cannot continue usage of Pale Moon

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-04-06, 18:17

The post is redundant, because we are aware of the issues and I explained as much - on this very forum, in fact.
There are a number of key web compatibility issues with Pale Moon that can't quickly or easily be solved because the specifications at the root of these issues want to, in broad strokes, redefine how the web is structured and how it operates. As this Chromium trend continues, it's simply the case that the usefulness of Pale Moon will be reduced if you expect a single browser experience - I'm the first to admit that.

You've obviously been expecting Pale Moon to be a drop-in replacement to basically Chrome, but the reality is that no browser except one using the Chromium engine can be that, period.

I understand your frustration and the logical step to find a different browser if you want that single-browser experience. Just to address the main point you were making: yes, were are very much aware of the compatibility issues with websites, we know what causes them, and we'll work on becoming more compatible with the Chrome-web. Ultimately there are two sides to this problem: one is us not having the same feature set as Chrome, and the other is webmasters deciding to target Chrome in their coding, including draft specifications/experimental technologies that are (and have been) pushed onto standards bodies in Google's implementation-first market dominance strategy, instead of targeting a broad base of web clients. Pale Moon isn't the only browser struggling with the continued bleeding-edge use by webmasters of every new shiny they never asked for until Chrome had it.
At the moment we're still recovering from the damaging blow by one of our own, which, of course, will additionally delay any further development work that would help with web compatibility issues.

I can just suggest that whatever browser you choose has a sane privacy policy (note: that excludes Mozilla Firefox, no matter how much they shout about being privacy focused). All the best of luck.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
old_logan
Moongazer
Moongazer
Posts: 10
Joined: 2022-04-04, 18:31

Re: Unfortunately, I cannot continue usage of Pale Moon

Unread post by old_logan » 2022-04-06, 22:27

Lot of new technologies there are that put responsabilities for Execution
--within your Personal Computer-- at Cloud Actors.

It's my view that action this challenges all of the FOSS movement;
It's also against my very personal sense of rightness.

A Right Navigator, present or future,
should always be 'picky' at endorsing and including these techs.

My customary view of a PC as a general tool is over;
'Internet' is too much intromissive, as defined by the W3Consortium.

Really heartaching, all of the issue.

Pale Mon will not be akin to Chrome on techs; My guess.

dapgo
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 204
Joined: 2016-10-11, 11:36

Re: Unfortunately, I cannot continue usage of Pale Moon

Unread post by dapgo » 2022-04-07, 10:07

If the current web/browsers situation is nightmare and time consuming for technical users, I can imagine how frustrating it is for "normal" users.
Though most people here is aware of the problems, in my opinion your feedback is always better than just quit on silence.

Who is guilty? At least I can point to Google, forkers of google, lack of imposition of standards from estates, bad developers and bad companies.

Palemoon/UXP is still an alternative, is still useful for many tasks and users, it must keep going on and we the users should support it as much as possible.
shrinkshooter wrote:
2022-04-06, 14:40
Hello everyone. I only just registered in order to say this, and I will vanish into the wind in short order, as well.
{...}

Locked