What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

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What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by CodeLurker » 2022-02-16, 22:56

Pale Moon Plugins

This post is about my experiences with your browsers, and has some suggestions as to direction. I discovered Pale Moon ages ago. However, it's extensions section then was lacking compared to the Classic Add-Ons Archive; so I changed to Basilisk. I used it for a while, but thought I might get better site compatibility by switching back to Pale Moon. I was pretty happy with it, until a lot of plugins I used were getting disabled. I switched back to Basilisk; but I saw the post on this being the last update. Thus, I can compare the plugins I was using without to those without. In all honesty, there were only a handful of things Basilisk does that Pale Moon didn't when it didn't have FUEL - in my use case, anyways.

Here are my plugins I'm using right now in Basilisk, not counting the Classic Addons Archive one:

Add Bookmark Here 2
Forcastfox (fix version) 2.4.8
Greasemonkey for Pale Moon
Lull The Tabs
Popup Blocker Ultimate
Printfriendly initial.rev72.1.1-signed.1-signed
Screenshoter Fixed 1.12
Session Manager 0.8.1.3
Split Panel 1.100.1-signed.1-signed
SQL Lite Manager 0.8.3.1-signed.1-signed
Toggle Autoplay 1.0.0
UAControl 0.1.3.1.1-signed.1-signed
uBlock Origin 1.16.4.30
YouTube Skip Signin 1.0.1
Native text to speech 0.5.3

I'm pretty happy with those. I do realize some will work on PM again; and I'm glad of that. I can also sympathize with the desire to modernize code (so long as it doesn't adversely impact readability). The main problems I have with trying to do this on Pale Moon version that broke so many plugins, follow. I realize that I've only ever needed Split Panel once; but it was just the thing for copying lots of values from one webpage to another at another site. People might not believe that Forcastfox works in PM and Basilisk; but I found that if I use SQL Lite Manager, I can go into the file that Forcastfox stores its settings in, and change the definition by finding my city number from Accuweather, and changing the name and city number to that. It's the ONLY thing I need SQL Lite Manager for. I prefer Schreenshotter to Fireshot, while I salute the Fireshot guy(s) for supporting Pale Moon; because the former is freeware, and the latter is crippleware. The free tier on Fireshot is pretty good, but limited in resolutions and formats to save to. I prefer UAControl to the alternatives. Pale Moon has Eclipsed Moon, Sasuga, Secret Agent (which may actually do the trick) and User Agent Status. The first two are about anonymity; and while I think that's a good thing, my interest is in browser compatibility. In the past, I had been able to use other user agent strings, and get pages to work right. Ironically, since I went back to Basilisk and got this plug-in again this last time, almost none of the user agent strings I've tried have fixed a broken site. What's so great about UAControl, is you can double-click an entry to edit it, copy one user agent string, and quickly create a new definition. Unless I set Eclipsed Moon to only one or a set of user agent strings for a subset of browsers, I haven't addressed using a UA string to fix a website AND have it work other sites work with their dedicated UA to fix their issues. Secret Agent has no list I can choose extant UA's from; so I need to bring up a separate webpage or a text editor. It doesn't remember that a given site needs a given UA string. Sasuga does remembers sites, but has no UA list. Popup Blocker Ultimate is great, because you can not only enable and disable popups, but whitelist and blacklist sites. You can't do that with the GreaseMonkey counterparts easily. Others will have their own favorite old XUL addons.

Additional notes: I'd love to see a Pale Moon specific recreation of the way that Forecastfox was supposed to work, with the icons in the status bar that you can hover over to get info; instead of the way it works (or doesn't) on FF and Chrome now. It also runs on PM, even on that PM version that was presumably without FUEL! I should add Menu Wizard as an essential Add-on as well; if only so that I can disable <Ctrl-W> for close window (i.e. the tab). I've lost work that way, when I tried for <Shift-W> instead. The PrintFriendly & PDF button is a single-site button; but unlike most single-site buttons, this one is more generally useful and deserves an exception, IMHOI. The classic plugin hasn't broken since the FF days, and it and the website it sends you to still works today. True, someone could just bookmark accuweather, or PrintFriendly.com; but they are awfully convenient.

In summary, here are the issues I had with PM, IF FUEL is removed again or classic plugins are disabled. Forecastfox (fixed) is broken on PM and Basilisk, but can be hacked to work. Popup Blocker Ultimate is still better than its PM counterpart. There is no Print Friendly plugin; although one should be easy to make, if they will give you the API for their website. The PM versions of Screenshotter, Toggle Autoplay, and UAControl are not as good as their PM counterparts. Native text to speech 0.5.3 just sends text to the MS speech facilities, so it would be fairly easy to re-create too; but it is not available as a dedicated PM plugin. The only other issue I have with Pale Moon is the title bar. Basilisk has no title bar; but I can't get rid of PM's. There are plugins to allow you to do things like get rid of it; but if you set up your browser like I do, they don't work. I have the peculiar habit of setting my browser up like a real browser: a real menu bar, no hamburger menu, a search bar, a bookmarks toolbar, and a status bar. In such a configuration, the utilities that promise to hide the title bar don't work. A minor annoyance, but still, more precious screen real estate.

Suggestions as to Direction

As I see it, there are three types of compatibility issues that might arise: Those which are desirable because there's a lot more labor involved in keeping them compatible due to changes in the Firefox-derived rendering engine, those which compromise security, and those which break Classic Addons Archive plugins even though it's not much harder not to break them. The first category cannot be helped, to the extent that it's a factor; so you guys have to decide that for yourselves. I value a secure browser; but Chrome is more-so, unless you consider corporate tracking insecure. I run my browser in a sandbox, and use other security measures. I haven't been using an antivirus, and yet almost never get a virus. Other users will have a different security profile. I care about security, but I urge a more gradual phase-out of the more insecure parts of plugin compatibility. In the extreme (such as in WebApps, no doubt), security can change the plugin specification, creating backward incompatibilities. I think backwards compatibility can be important enough to make moderate, temporary security compromises.

For me, the plugins are a huge part of why I choose a browser. The percentage who think they're important does not convey that they are VERY important to that segment of your users who use them. I think JustOff is a hero; and the Classic Add-ons Archive are a valuable resource. (I do not know the guy, nor have communicated with him - I just use a few of the 19k+ plugins he saved.) I would scrutinize these reasons: do they REALLY cost significant labor not break compatibility? Do they REALLY compromise security not to? Is it more of a policy or a political decision to break backwards compatibility? In that case, I would suggest not breaking backwards compatibility for policy or political reasons. It seems the plan was go complete the PM ecosystem, and then CAA plugins would not matter any more. The plugins at CAA represent an investment of thousands or millions of man-years; and it is understandable that replicating the important ones, especially a browser with a much smaller market segment, will be daunting. Still, the plugins that I would lose using PM with FUEL off (although I realize it's no longer under discussion) are but a handful.

Perhaps there might be an option to enable or disable FUEL compatibility in the options, with an explanation that it is needed for old FF plugins. It could be off by default, but for more tech savvy users who want some of those great old plugins, they could enable it. That alone might solve the backward compatibility problem by letting users make their own choice.

One thing you could do to reassure community developers, is if you decide to support classic plugins, officially say you will not decide not to break the old FF XUL plugins unnecessarily, if you decide to go that route. If you decide to go the route for optional FUEL etc. compatibility as I suggest, you should still pledge not to break compatibility with either, if practical. If you decide to go back the direction you were heading, assure developers that PM will support backwards compatibility for at least the new plugins, while they are still important. I program in C++ myself, and would point out that most of the "C" language works in C++ as well. The standards committee is usually greeted with howls of derision when they propose breaking backwards compatibility somewhere, for as much as is added onto the language, for better or worse. That's important to its popularity; and programmers of Add-ons also would be reassured to know their plugs are not going to go obsolete if it can reasonably be avoided.

In general, I suggest if you plan to break a lot of plugins in the future, involve the community! That's one thing that FF ignored the majority on. Show you're different. If old plugin compatibility cannot be made a preference as I suggest, and you need to break backwards compatibility, put out polls and get a positive response before breaking backwards compatibility for a huge number of plugins. If you decide to return to that route, you could hold votes for the most important classic plugins to carry forward before making the big break. Best yet would be if a high degree of CAA compatibility could be practically maintained with good security; but you could focus plugin development on the most important classic ones before breaking compatibility with old ones if you decided for that. This might come up again if multi-threading was adopted, although it's not on the table for now. Involving the community in such decisions reassures Add-on devs that backwards compatibility won't be yanked away without good reason. Most importantly, IMHO, is to reassure devs what the policy will be on backward compatibility, and involve the community with such momentous decisions. Community Addon-devs have been burned before, and are probably concerned if plugin compatibility will change capriciously on PM or not, as probably are many of its users. Still, PM is pretty close to closing the gap between its Add-on ecosystem and the old FF one.

PS: I would have lost my work on this message if I hadn't saved it. The BB logged me out before I finished. I suggest a longer time until it logs us out.

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-02-17, 00:45

You're describing extensions, not plugins. Plugins in Mozilla browsers are platform and architecture specific binary components used to handle non standard or protected DRM content embedded on web pages. Flash, Java and Silverlight are the most popular examples. Extensions extend the browser interface and are written in Javascript and/or XUL, they are not platform specific. The words may sound the same to convey the same meaning of 'additional code module to change functionality' but both of them have very specific and different meanings in the context of this and other Mozilla based browsers.
CodeLurker wrote:
2022-02-16, 22:56
I suggest a longer time until it logs us out.
People don't usually post lengthy essays here, that take time to compose, so the time out isn't a problem. Best type it up in a separate editor and then paste it when you're ready to publish it.
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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by vannilla » 2022-02-17, 08:49

That's not how sasuga works. Have you actually used used it or just read the description?

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by CodeLurker » 2022-02-17, 15:01

vannilla: Say, on second look, I'm not sure I really see what UAControl does that Sasusa doesn't. I had installed about three, looking for a suitable counterpart; and hadn't tried them all out well. I'm happy to have one less classic plugin that I want to run in PM.

moonbat: My bad. Extensions or FF Add-ons. "Best type it up in a separate editor and then paste it when you're ready to publish it." Is that really best? It seems that it could come under the heading of valuing community input. How bout I ask it this way: What would it hurt, to raise the timeout to an hour or two, since such people will either have something real to contribute, or they are trying to flood the forum, and their post will never get through?

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-02-17, 16:11

Forum settings are very lenient here. Sessions generally don't time out unless your IP changes in the meantime -- if you get logged out then that is likely what happened (if you are e.g. on mobile or a wifi network this may happen regularly).

The maximum time to submit forms (like a new post) is 7200 seconds. If you take more than 2 hours to compose something, then I suggest hitting preview semi-regularly to not have the form token time out.
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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by gepus » 2022-02-17, 18:42

CodeLurker wrote:
2022-02-17, 15:01
... since such people will either have something real to contribute, or ...
Off-topic:
I wouldn't consider writing meaningless essays a contribution but rather a way to keep reading users busy. ;)

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-02-18, 00:14

gepus wrote:
2022-02-17, 18:42
Off-topic:
I wouldn't consider writing meaningless essays a contribution but rather a way to keep reading users busy. ;)
Off-topic:
Especially when it's clear the person in question didn't bother with basic forum etiquette of lurking for a while and searching and reading posts on a given topic before diving in with a 2000 word essay. I mean you call yourself a programmer and you can't be bothered to READ, and post exactly the sort of clueless essay that a non technical person expecting to be spoonfed on everything(remember CharmCityCrab?) would? Starting with not knowing the difference between a plugin and an extension. Bone up on the basics before spouting advice.
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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by CodeLurker » 2022-02-18, 19:34

So, what I'm saying about the importance of classic plugins has no validity just because you can find a few nitpicks to bash me about? Does it change the plugins I or others wish to be able to use in PM or Basilisk? Less suggestion bashing, and more consideration for suggestion and how users use the browser will, in my inexpert, hugely flawed capacity to mistake an extension from a plugin, opinion, will drive fewer users away, and validate the idea of a reassuring a community of extension developers.

Man, some of you guys can get crabby when somebody makes a suggestion.

As far as the extensions: the classic plugin "Native text to speech (tts)" will not install in the new PM; thus leaving it without speech capability. One real upside of doing it that way, is that it doesn't go through any intermediate website; so it has better privacy than some other solutions. That classic plugin also had the upside of not sending what you wished it to say over the Internet. Perhaps it might start working again in PM, as some backwards compatibility measures are being re-embraced.

Another suggestion: How about a webpage that lists many of the popular classic extensions, and gives the equivalent new extensions, for those new extensions that can replace the classic ones? Does that make me a know-it-all giving advice, or does it make me just a user making a suggestion, and deserving of some modicum of respect and human dignity as such? Some users have perfectly good suggestions. I put a lot of time looking at what I'd loose and what I wouldn't; and then thinking of how you could make peace between the classic and the phasing them out camps. Then, I put in probably about three hours to type it in. If you have a criticism of my real suggestions, how about making it, instead of nit-picking?
Last edited by CodeLurker on 2022-02-18, 20:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by ron_1 » 2022-02-18, 19:39

CodeLurker wrote:
2022-02-18, 19:34
Another suggestion: How about a webpage that lists many of the popular classic extensions, and gives the equivalent new extensions, for those new extensions that can replace the classic ones?
Why not just use the search bar on the Pale Moon extension site for what you're looking for?

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by CodeLurker » 2022-02-18, 20:01

Because in some cases, what I find isn't as good as the classic extension, and in others, I'll have four, or maybe more, to try out. If UAControl Options was listed with only Sasuga as a replacement for it, I'd know that it was the best replacement for it. (My issue with trying Sasuga out adequately, at first was that it's called "Sasuga", but shows up on GUI as a menu under Tools, called "Open SSUA Override"; and I wasn't sure if the one was the other.) If it wasn't listed, I'd know coverage for it hadn't been found yet. I don't suggest that it try to cover any fraction of the 19k+ classic extensions; only those some PM user cares about and has found a replacement for. A wiki page somewhere would make it readily updatable.

I suppose you guys can say that the Basilisk project was a success, in that it is now a very good platform for running classic XUL extensions; and I believe I remember reading that that's all it was for. I respect that you are trying to find a new maintainer for it, in light of its users who like it. I think you guys are doing fantastic work with PM and its extensions.

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-02-18, 21:50

CodeLurker wrote:
2022-02-18, 19:34
Man, some of you guys can get crabby when somebody makes a suggestion.
And maybe you should just take some advice from longer-term members and have a little humility when you join a community. otherwise you may indeed rub people the wrong way and actually have a very very poor experience.
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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-02-18, 21:53

CodeLurker wrote:
2022-02-18, 20:01
I suppose you guys can say that the Basilisk project was a success, in that it is now a very good platform for running classic XUL extensions; and I believe I remember reading that that's all it was for. I respect that you are trying to find a new maintainer for it, in light of its users who like it.
I don't know where you remember that from because that has never been "all that Basilisk was for" -- it wasn't even ever one of its main goals or drivers.
I guess nobody ever reads stuff on product websites any more and just goes by hearsay?
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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by gepus » 2022-02-18, 23:37

CodeLurker wrote:
2022-02-18, 20:01
Because in some cases, what I find isn't as good as the classic extension, ...
You could have learned how to 'fix' most of those damned classic extensions which lately didn't work with Pale Moon by searching and reading the relevant parts of the forum. A work per extension less than 20 minutes in most cases.
Instead you choose to gladden us with suggestions. :)

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-02-19, 02:33

gepus wrote:
2022-02-18, 23:37
Instead you choose to gladden us with suggestions. :)
Not even search the add-ons site for that matter either... I forked lull the tabs for a reason, you know? just to name one that's in the list. Or SQLite Manager... Also forked.
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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by CodeLurker » 2022-02-20, 00:45

I saw Lull the Tabs. I didn't list it as one unavailable in PM; and I really like it being available there. (I was also grateful to see Tree Style Tabs - a popular extension that is just the thing when one has numerous tabs to close.) Of course, editing ones that are copyrighted and posting them wouldn't be permitted; which is why backwards compatibility or originally making new versions of some extensions are the only choices. Of course, sometimes earlier versions of extensions are under more permissive licenses; and one could work from there.) My point is that there is a HUGE, really good library of classic extensions in the CAA, and I think no other ecosystem has caught up to; even as some surpass it in individual many cases. I particularly like the performance monitoring extensions available in PM . Part of the disenfranchisement on the parts of a large number of users with Firefox is that they went to a more restrictive extension architecture, which PM has not. Another part of the disenfranchisement felt was the near overnight obsolescence of a library decades long in creation and with strong community contribution; and so it was unique. Many of those extensions never made it to WebExtensions. PM has made great strides in covering many of the most popular extensions. Let's say it has covered enough CAA extensions that many PM users who use extensions want to cover that functionality 40-60% of the time. Every 10% after that will be more work and more work for fewer and fewer users per extension. I think PM will maybe get to 80%-85% in 2-5 years. In the meantime, there are still important extensions in the CAA. Basic stuff, like text-to-speech using the M$ Speech API. IMHO, this process will take some time. Fortunately, most CAA extensions aren't important; and of course, many users would prefer other extension architectures doing things the CAA never thought of. I suggest there are still good ideas from the CAA to be brought forward. If it were a preference to support the CAA to the level PM did a year ago, or Basilisk does right now. it might warn them that it lowers security, but allows classic extensions to run. With robust PM extension development, in some years, presumably the CAA won't matter as much - at least from how it seems from my limited perspective as a user and intermittent reader of these forums.

I've been watching this community a long time, mostly searching for answers to PM and Basilisk questions. You can find earlier posts under the same username; although that profile had lapsed. I had meant to post the topic post for a long time; but as plans for Basilisk and PM changed, so did what I wanted to write. (I have been writing other literature stuff; and give back to the 'Net in my own way, and in more ways than just kibitzing on FOSS.) I forgot a basic FAQ; although I'd read them long ago. It probably timed out letting me edit the topic post; so I couldn't update it when thought to.

Edit: That was version 0.4.8 of Native text to speech ( tts ) that works on Basilisk, not 0.5.3. It uses the WebSpeech API. It's pretty good, so long as you have a better speaker than "Microsoft Anna", the default, installed and selected. The extension does not install on PM. You must first select the voices you want to appear on the context menu with the options when you click on the icon, and then you can select text and right-click it and select the voice to have it read aloud.

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by CodeLurker » 2022-03-09, 01:40

Sorry, I seem not to have read MoonChild's helpful replies as carefully as I should have the first time around; but I had in mind to start a list of replacements for those extensions not available in Pale Moon and their replacements, and now I can add to the list of replacements with their recommendations. You might consider this a start on a list for Pale Moon replacements for Classic Add-ons Archive extensions that you might e.g. link to at the top of the extensions page.

So, from the above list, here are their replacements so far. The color code is that green ones are good replacements, orange ones means it's promising, but not there yet, and black means either it isn't and doesn't plan to be 100% replacement, or there is none yet.

"Add Bookmark Here 2" best replacement(s):
"Forecastfox (fix version) 2.4.8" best replacement(s):
  • "Forecast & Weather on the Side": Doesn't yet attempt to do near as much as the original. Perhaps it will surpass the original in future iterations. (The original actually still runs on Pale Moon, and is in the CAA; but is hard to set up, unless you live in New York. Forecastfox gives you a lot more information by comparison, not to mention the kewl radar weather animation, just by hovering the cursor over the globe icon at the bottom of the screen.)
"Lull The Tabs" best replacement(s):
  • "Suspender": A presumably good fork of the original, available in the PM extensions.
"Native text to speech 0.5.3" best replacement(s):
  • None. It's hard to install some of the older MS Speech voices for Windows 7 and later, other than the minimalistic Microsoft Anna which is installed by default, but it's a really light-weight feature, as it doesn't involve sending the speech to be read aloud to an intermediate website, nor synthesizing the speech itself.
"Session Manager 0.8.1.3": best replacement(s):
  • "Session Manager": A faithful fork of the original, available in the PM extensions.
"Printfriendly initial.rev72.1.1-signed.1-signed" best replacement(s):
  • None. One might just add a link to it on one's Bookmarks toolbar, copy a URL, click the link, paste in the URL, and done; but it's still nice to have something so generally useful available with just the click of a button, even if it is a single-website extension. An independent remake of the extension might add a feature to use a proxy to request the PDF of a webpage.
"Screenshoter Fixed 1.12" best replacement(s):
  • "FireShot": More limited than the original, which supported both PNG and JPG formats with user-specified compression level; unless you buy the registered version of Fireshot. While I support the right of a writer of an extension to make money on it, I also support the right of others to make what seems to be a work-alike version of a seemingly fairly-straight forward free version with limited features.
"Split Panel 1.100.1-signed.1-signed" best replacement(s):
  • None. Rarely needed, but crucial in certain situation(s). Gives you two webpage views at a time, with only the additional display of a URL in added clutter.
"SQL Lite Manager 0.8.3.1-signed.1-signed" best replacement(s):
  • "SQLite Admin": It looks like an excellent replacement. My only use for either, so far, has been to make settings for the local weather, by going to AccuWeather.com, getting the weather for my city, getting the city number for the URL, and editing the forcastfox.sqllite file, so Forecast Fox (fixed) will have local weather to show.
"Toggle Autoplay 1.0.0" best replacement(s):
  • "Autoplay Toggle (Non-Restartless)": An excellent replacement for the original.
"UAControl 0.1.3.1.1-signed.1-signed" best replacement(s):
  • "Sasusa ": Appears to be at least as good as the original. It shows up as "Open SSUA Override" on the Tools menu.
"uBlock Origin" best replacement(s):
  • The legacy version 1.16.4.30 still works great in both Basilisk and PM. There are also versions which uses lower resources and make use of PM's features in the PM extensions. The Origin version is still great at keeping its block lists up to date.
"Youtube Skip Signin 1.0.1" best replacement(s):
  • "Youtube Skip Sign-in ": I think this might be one I get from the PM extensions in the first place.
Thus, there are 4 from the CAA which are still not available in PM, since you guys pointed out PM counterparts for 3 more of them. That's a pretty respectable replacement percentage. I hope the above list can be the start of an official guide for FF disenfranchisees, so they can find replacements for their favorite plugins.

Thus, the holdouts, in my case, anyway, are:
  • "Native text to speech 0.5.3"
  • "Printfriendly initial.rev72.1.1-signed.1-signed"
  • "Screenshoter Fixed 1.12"
  • "Split Panel 1.100.1-signed.1-signed"
Getting "ForecastFox (fixed)" to run on PM seems like a hack, since one must edit the .sqllite file to get it to run; but I hope backwards compatibility for it at least continues on PM, until there is a PM replacement as good or better.

Finally, again, Basilisk puts its menu bar on the title bar; thereby opening up a little screen space for me. While there are plugins that claim to be able to make that happen in PM, none of them worked for me. I show the Menu bar, the Search bar, and over-ride the showing of the hamburger menu; and have a status bar due to "Forcastfox (Fixed)". From the top, in Basilisk, I have menu bar on the top on the same line as the Windows Title Bar, tabs, URL, then Bookmarks Toolbar. I'd really like to be able to do it in PM the same way; but it keeps displaying the title bar.

A list such as the above would have saved me a lot of time migrating; and would doubtlessly, others.

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by moonbat » 2022-03-09, 04:04

CodeLurker wrote:
2022-03-09, 01:40
A list such as the above would have saved me a lot of time migrating
Again, a forum search would've shown you that the reverse was already done when Pale Moon initially deprecated support for Firefox extensions. Or even just searching the addons site for similar sounding addons to what you're looking for, it is divided into subcategories to make it easier to browse.

But apparently searching and using already available information is so hard and slow compared to typing out a question or a long redundant post and then waiting hours for replies.
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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by CodeLurker » 2022-03-09, 07:06

The point of such a page would be to save people time by not having to search around and give different extensions a try; when having an extension that proposes to do a thing isn't necessarily the same thing as having it do everything important the classic extension does. That may consist of having to try the different extension, sometimes for days or more, to see how well they work in actual practice, and if they do everything important the classic did. A quick review of them as replacements, if sufficiently objective, can save users time. Sorting out the ones that are and are not sufficient replacements or forks of the classics can bring attention to those for which there is no PM counterpart. I brought out four such extensions, and the menu bar on the title bar feature. Others will presumably have more. Bringing together info on whatever as yet unsupported CAA extensions still have users interested in them then might interest devs in filling in the gaps; and help prevent us from losing important functionality implemented by the original FF devs which contributed to what became the CAA.

Yeah, yeah, I could have searched, and usually did; but I made a start on list of CAA extension replacements. It seems to me a helpful list of replacement extensions, and underscore some important functionality still only in the CAA but not yet in PM. Other users will likely have extensions as yet uncovered which are yet more important to them. That can be useful in assessing how much of that functionality is being lost if you break CAA compatibility. I thought that the point of the "Unified XUL Platform" Basilisk browser was that the XUL platform of Basilisk and Pale Moon would ultimately be unified by using its extension support. That "long and redundant post" helped me sort out my extensions replacements, may help others, and might even lead to an official migration guide. How about a little less being hypercritical of users with suggestions? It seems it would help the user base of Pale Moon to grow, to have a more cordial support forum. I seem to see more of this finding fault with the user's suggestion in these forums, and not just you, than most. I anticipated what turns out to be only partially deserved heated nit-picking on my suggestion; because I have seen it here often before, but thought I would try to communicate, anyway, for, what seems at least to me, the good of the project. I imagine other users finding my list on search results, and going "oh, that's helpful", and wondering why he's getting slammed so bad for trying to be helpful.

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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-03-09, 12:27

And who will be creating and maintaining such a page, exactly? Will it save anyone time at scale? Search capabilities are there for a reason. I suggest you use them instead of expecting to be handed a curated list exactly fitting your personal individual use of the browser.
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Re: What I'll Miss About Basilisk, and Thoughts About Direction

Unread post by CodeLurker » 2022-03-10, 02:02

I suggest setting up a wiki somewhere, and giving a pass to anybody willing to contribute to it. Perhaps set up a wiki on Wikia and create a page for it; or else locally if you have the time. It could help out Tobin too, because he was getting steamed at users not knowing what underlying extension framework their favorite plugins were using. That could be put on that page too. The license type too; but the extension framework and the license type would only be of interest for extensions that haven't been covered in the PM extensions yet. Of course, this page would only be about pre-e10s FF extensions, and not those of other browsers, or in WebExtensions.

I would also hope for some statement as how long backwards compatibility on newly coded extensions will be maintained; in regard to the extension frameworks and which ones will be supported indefinitely, so devs can have more confidence the rug won't soon be yanked out from under themselves like with FF itself. This for the sake of those who do plan to contribute PM extensions, of course, which I may find time for yet. Nonetheless, I and likely others would find such an official policy reassuring. I think it may help its extension ecology expand.
Last edited by CodeLurker on 2022-03-10, 02:24, edited 3 times in total.

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