What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Talk about code development, features, specific bugs, enhancements, patches, and similar things.
Forum rules
Please keep everything here strictly on-topic.
This board is meant for Pale Moon source code development related subjects only like code snippets, patches, specific bugs, git, the repositories, etc.

This is not for tech support! Please do not post tech support questions in the "Development" board!
Please make sure not to use this board for support questions. Please post issues with specific websites, extensions, etc. in the relevant boards for those topics.

Please keep things on-topic as this forum will be used for reference for Pale Moon development. Expect topics that aren't relevant as such to be moved or deleted.

What is it you actually want from the Pale Moon browser?

Poll ended at 2021-11-26, 10:10

I want it to be 100% compatible with the Chrome-heavy developed web, feature-for-feature, with minimal breakage of websites.
10
8%
I want it to give me a comfortable, unchanging web client on which I can run all my extensions I've used for years, that is kept up to date with security patches.
42
32%
I want it to be a sane, minimal-compromise, secure browser.
65
49%
I want it to be a target-specific browser that is specialised in some task (explain what task below).
2
2%
I want it to be modern Firefox but then without the telemetry, profiling, service pushing and political backdrop of Mozilla.
14
11%
 
Total votes: 133

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-12, 10:10

All of these options are pretty much mutually exclusive, so you have to give it some real thought what you really value most in a browser, before you place your vote.

This poll is important; please vote seriously.

If you're seeing this and want to vote but not register on the forum, go here: https://forms.gle/WzxrbjxaVDy9Fxxh6
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: What do REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-12, 11:12

Please do not post your thought processes behind your choice as it will influence other voters.
Only use post replies for the choice to indicate the specific task you want it to have (if you chose that option), otherwise please refrain.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
athenian200
Contributing developer
Contributing developer
Posts: 1498
Joined: 2018-10-28, 19:56
Location: Georgia

Re: What do REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by athenian200 » 2021-11-12, 12:50

The specific task I had in mind was to leverage Pale Moon (well, really more Goanna than Pale Moon specifically) into a sort of testbed for cleanly implementing web specifications as written in a new engine that will eventually evolve to differ substantially from both Chromium/Blink and modern Gecko, perhaps eventually revealing gaps between the spec as written vs. as implemented in mainstream browsers, and helping to clarify it.

I don't think that will influence anyone's vote.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

User avatar
RealityRipple
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 647
Joined: 2018-05-17, 02:34
Location: Los Berros Canyon, California
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by RealityRipple » 2021-11-12, 17:22

My primary interest is XUL and the near-total control it provides. I'm counting that as target-specific, even though the task is "manipulating any part of the browser or any webpage I choose".
My secondary interest is monocultures lead inevitably to death.

bukvatykev

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by bukvatykev » 2021-11-12, 22:49

Can you please define more "sane, minimal-compromise, secure browser" as it seems to me like very broad definition.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-12, 23:17

bukvatykev wrote:
2021-11-12, 22:49
Can you please define more "sane, minimal-compromise, secure browser" as it seems to me like very broad definition.
I'll try... but the description below is not complete.
"sane" as in keeping a balance in features; remaining sensible in terms of what is supported. Thinking of privacy without paranoia, etc.
"minimal-compromise" as in not adding gadgeteering, connect-at-all-costs, service-reliant or outlandish things and focusing on the core of the web.
"secure" should speak for itself: not allowing known insecure connections, not eroding the display of EV, DV statuses, keeping tabs on developments in security and protocols; avoiding centralization where possible, and so forth.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

KlarkKentThe3rd
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 556
Joined: 2018-04-20, 20:31

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by KlarkKentThe3rd » 2021-11-12, 23:43

I wish I could vote for MORE than 1 thing. Mostly a combination of 3 and 2, but a dash of 1.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-13, 00:09

I told you these options are all pretty much mutually exclusive. There is no fantasy world here where you can pick and mix.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
Massacre
Moon lover
Moon lover
Posts: 84
Joined: 2020-05-01, 13:16
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Massacre » 2021-11-14, 07:25

I hope "not allowing known insecure connections" does not mean disabling of http.

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 4942
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by moonbat » 2021-11-14, 07:51

Massacre wrote:
2021-11-14, 07:25
I hope "not allowing known insecure connections" does not mean disabling of http.
In what universe could you interpret it that way? FYI, it is Google and Mozilla who are pushing https everywhere for stuff where it isn't' needed, while at the same time pushing bullshit like hiding the protocol or full URL from the address bar.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
Linux Mint 21 Xfce x64 on HP i5-5200 laptop, 12 GB RAM.
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX

User avatar
LuftWafflePilot
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 224
Joined: 2021-02-19, 20:46

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by LuftWafflePilot » 2021-11-14, 09:41

Why was my post deleted?

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-14, 10:27

LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2021-11-14, 09:41
Why was my post deleted?
'cause you didn't pay attention to what I posted in red right at the start.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
LuftWafflePilot
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 224
Joined: 2021-02-19, 20:46

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by LuftWafflePilot » 2021-11-14, 13:53

Moonchild wrote:
2021-11-14, 10:27
LuftWafflePilot wrote:
2021-11-14, 09:41
Why was my post deleted?
'cause you didn't pay attention to what I posted in red right at the start.
Oh. Looks like mi misread the the do not part.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-14, 20:53

Emphasised it now for good measure.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
pale guru
Moonbather
Moonbather
Posts: 61
Joined: 2021-11-06, 11:10
Location: Tyskland

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by pale guru » 2021-11-15, 04:58

Define 'sane': a web browser to principles of what was the original Firefox was conforming to: to browse the web lean, fast, and safe, without having to compete with other browser manufacturers to develop a kind of jack of all trades device (we say 'egg-laying wool milk pig'). Camera and microphone support belong to chat programs, not to a web browser.
… tanning in dimmed LCD light. – Evry 1′s a beginner, baby, that's the truth…

bukvatykev

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by bukvatykev » 2021-11-15, 07:50

Moonchild wrote:
2021-11-12, 23:17
bukvatykev wrote:
2021-11-12, 22:49
Can you please define more "sane, minimal-compromise, secure browser" as it seems to me like very broad definition.
I'll try... but the description below is not complete.
"sane" as in keeping a balance in features; remaining sensible in terms of what is supported. Thinking of privacy without paranoia, etc.
"minimal-compromise" as in not adding gadgeteering, connect-at-all-costs, service-reliant or outlandish things and focusing on the core of the web.
"secure" should speak for itself: not allowing known insecure connections, not eroding the display of EV, DV statuses, keeping tabs on developments in security and protocols; avoiding centralization where possible, and so forth.
I'm sorry, but "minimal-compromise" explanation that didn't make it clearer for me. You've wrote, that all options are mutually exclusive so does this option mean that PM in the future will not be compatible with chrome-heavy web AND the PM will kill off old extensions for good if this option wins? "minimal-compromise" heavily suggest to me that PM will do both and rest of the options from the poll since not supporting even one of the poll options is a pretty big compromise.

The rest of the options follow SMART criteria to some degree where "minimal-compromise" does not. Can you please provide more details what does this contains and how this option will affect the rest.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-15, 10:30

bukvatykev wrote:
2021-11-15, 07:50
The rest of the options follow SMART criteria to some degree where "minimal-compromise" does not. Can you please provide more details what does this contains and how this option will affect the rest.
No, I can't. I assumed this was simply a language barrier issue (as it's clear to everyone else) and I won't be getting stuck in semantics here or making promises I can't keep about what criteria are being followed. If you can't choose because you want everything spelled out in detail for a poll that is about general direction and not detail, then please don't vote.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

bukvatykev

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by bukvatykev » 2021-11-15, 11:59

Moonchild wrote:
2021-11-15, 10:30
No, I can't. I assumed this was simply a language barrier issue (as it's clear to everyone else) and I won't be getting stuck in semantics here or making promises I can't keep about what criteria are being followed. If you can't choose because you want everything spelled out in detail for a poll that is about general direction and not detail, then please don't vote.
Well that the thing. I don't think it is clear to everyone. I think everyone will see behind it what they want to see since it the broadest option from the rest.

But since it is going to win anyway and all options are mutually exclusive, I'm assuming that the chrome-heavy web compatibility won't be fixed and old extension support will be axed. Am I wrong?

MGB1971
Moonbather
Moonbather
Posts: 53
Joined: 2018-05-11, 09:31

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by MGB1971 » 2021-11-15, 16:41

Moonchild,

Could you tell us what prompted you to make this survey?

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: What do you REALLY want from Pale Moon?

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-11-16, 10:33

MGB1971 wrote:
2021-11-15, 16:41
Could you tell us what prompted you to make this survey?
I could, but now is not the time (yet)
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Locked