FF 25: Remove Add-on bar, remove custom toolbar

[Moonchild]

@mattatobin - it's not that simple. /browser/ in the source tree certainly contains most of the UI code, however, the UI code is heavily dependent on the code available in binary modules (e.g. /content/ and /gfx/) You can't simply grab an older UI and transplant it, it can and most certainly will break.

[polarbear]

As someone who isn't technically well-versed in this matter (my strengths lie in databases), I was actually wondering at what point the UI changes Mozilla implements become too cumbersome to undo. This strive to capture users by catering to the mean would be OK to me (begrudgingly) as long as there were ways for users to revert. That doesn't appear to be Mozilla's intention.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't be that easy. I am just brainstorming on what can be done. As a browser I heavily rely on and my last refuge agenst the simplification and choiceless days head approaching from all directions I want to contribute any knowledge or opinion as possible. Sorry if most of them are not helpful

How can we maintain everything without a complete divergence of the code base?

[mayoko]

good gravy, I have to agree, I switched to palemoon when the UI started changing and never looked back, I recently tried chrome, I can't believe people are actually going to that rubbish... it's overly simplified dumbed down interface with near no customizability, how can people want that? Ugh. I hope PaleMoon stays around for as long as Mozilla does, it's the only 64bit browser that hasn't caved to the majority of the chrome twins ui changes, what's wrong with having options? It's never good to force users into things by removing options, I thought having the ability to right click to enable the add-on bar was irritating, I would be beyond mad if it were completely removed!

[New Tobin Paradigm]

When did the general audience of end users dictate what we as power users need or want?

I have a dream. Once people are off on their smart phones and consumer devices and no longer have proper PCs in their house. The market for PCs will be a niche market voiced by us. Let them have their toys. There will always be a need for advanced and complex systems with adaptability for everyone and the traditional computing scheme will reach a balance where true evolution will take hold again. It won't be Mozilla or Microsoft leading these. It will be us.

If you have a tablet or ipad as a replacement for your desktop or laptop. You never really needed a desktop or laptop. We do and as the consumerist masses are not on the PC space anymore we can get back to our business as we used to before the computer revolution with a desktop in every house hold. It is possible that the specialists will have a place again that they deserve. Most of the support calls will go to customer support of the device, not us.

[Moonchild]

When did the general audience of end users dictate what we as power users need or want?

When Mozilla started to use telemetry as gospel, ignoring the fact that most knowledgeable people who actually customize are the same people in general not inclined to let statistical data be collected and sent to a third party.

[satrow]

When did the general audience of end users dictate what we as power users need or want?

When Mozilla started to use telemetry as gospel, ignoring the fact that most knowledgeable people who actually customize are the same people in general not inclined to let statistical data be collected and sent to a third party.

+1

Power users tend to take control from the outset, from customising their OS install onwards.

How do I minimise traffic to boost my speed, lower my ping times? By blocking all non-vital web traffic ...

[mayoko]

I know this article was made in may but is it still relevant? It appears Mozilla is having second thoughts about this decision in some manner. http://www.ghacks.net/2013/05/15/good-news-firefoxs-add-on-bar-wont-be-removed-after-all-in-australis-redesign/

[Night Wing]

Read the article in the link, but if you read the comments after the article, Mozilla still plans to remove the Add-on bar in a later version. In other words, we're only getting a "reprieve" with Firefox......sorta like a "stay of execution".

[The Pale Bride]

Mozilla really needs to get their act together. The whole reason I originally used firefox in the first place was because of the customizability. If there weren't any addons, I would have switched to chrome a long time ago. I don't understand the reasons of some of the decisions that they make, but there's no need to alienate users like that.

I'm glad there's someone else out here that's still leaves choice up to the user.

[Night Wing]

From looking at all the changes which have started with version 12 of Firefox (which I've noticed) and the proposed changes for versions beyond version 22, I firmly believe non-technical users (like me) and power users of Firefox have no say in what visible and non visible changes are being put into versions of Firefox.

The Firefox developers supposedly have a 5000 vocal group which advises them on changes made by the developers to the browser. But I think the 5000 vocal group is just a rubber stamp for what the Firefox developers and the head honchos at Mozilla "want" for the browser and probably were hand picked by the head honchos at Mozilla so the vocal group "will never rock the boat". In this vocal group, I don't believe you'd find one non-techncial or one computer illiterate user. I also think another factor might be a driving force and which isn't seen and also works in the background. This factor is probably the powerful hand of Google.

After all, didn't Google give money to Mozilla when Mozilla was cash strapped? If this is so, this would explain lots of changes, both visible and non-visible, which can be seen in Firefox and which the most glaring change being Australis itself. In other words, when one receives money from Google, I'm sure it comes with "strings attached" if you get my drift since Google doesn't seem to give money out of the goodness of Google's heart. I would think if Google did gave money to Mozilla, Google didn't give it in a lump sum either. Probably Mozilla gets money from Google on a timed basis. This would explain many of the visible and non visible changes to the Firefox browser. I'm pretty sure this money could be listed within the practice accountants use called "creative accounting" to hide Google's hand.

If the above is true, with Mozilla getting into bed with Google, that's when both non-technical and power users of Firefox.....get more than a good night's sleep on a repeat basis with every new version of Firefox.

In closing, I wouldn't be too surprised one day in the future to see a headline saying Google is buying Mozilla and the deal would be finalized on such and such date since Google is loaded with cash and Mozilla isn't. This is the best way to get rid of competition.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

So by bringing Firefox to parity with chrome in the end for Google to buy Mozilla and just drop Firefox as all the remaining firefox users are using Chrome Lite already the transition would be fairly trivial?

[Moonchild]

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. It's a possibility.

[megaman]

So by bringing Firefox to parity with chrome in the end for Google to buy Mozilla and just drop Firefox as all the remaining firefox users are using Chrome Lite already the transition would be fairly trivial?

Firefox won this Browser Grand Prix, so it is once again the king.
Some even report that Firefox loads pages faster.
PM is enhanced further, so more power to us.

I am just not down with their mentality.
When MIcrosoft was battling Firefox with IE, Mozilla talked in a way of saying, "We will take down IE."
When Google joins the browser wars, Mozilla talks in a way of saying, "We welcome competition."
Of course, you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you, but seriously...

[Night Wing]

So by bringing Firefox to parity with chrome in the end for Google to buy Mozilla and just drop Firefox as all the remaining firefox users are using Chrome Lite already the transition would be fairly trivial?

If and the key word is "if"; if Google would purchase Mozilla, I don't think Google would drop the Firefox browser. By keeping Firefox, it would most likely change the name of Firefox to something like "FireChrome" since the one thing Firefox has now (if the FF developers don't destroy it with their constant tinkering/copying of Chrome) is the greater customization and add-ons which are superior to Chrome.

This way, Google would have both the users, non disgruntled and disgruntled) of Firefox (who won't go to Internet Explorer) in their pocket and their own Chrome users. Google, in the browser wars, would double it's market share overnight with it's acquisition of Mozilla. It's only a hypothetical scenario, but this scenario makes sense.

BTW, the above scenario has been carried out just a few months ago, but with different companies. Look at Facebook and Instagram. Facebook looked at Instagram and saw it as a serious competitor to Facebook. What did Facebook do? They bought Instagram. Instagram is still in business, but I think Facebook is ultimately approving or disapproving what goes on with Instagram concerning business decisions (changes).

[jangdonggun1234]

Ok, finally, that's Mozilla choice, they removed add-bar already, disabled ability to add new toolbar: http://cdn.ghacks.net/wp-content/upload ... adness.png

Arcticle from ghacks: http://www.ghacks.net/2013/07/29/so-thi ... e-mozilla/

This suckkkkkkkkkssssssss.

[Moonchild]

All the more reason to use Pale Moon?

[Night Wing]

Well, I said it before and I'll say it again. I like the status bar/add-on bar in Firefox since Firefox is my backup browser in Windows 7.

If the Add-on bar is removed and since I don't like the look of Google Chrome and with Australis in version 25 of Firefox which makes Firefox look like Google Chrome, I plan on uninstalling FF 23 and them downloading Firefox 24ESR (32-bit) for Windows via the installer and stay on this version until the dust settles and see how things play out with Firefox 25 and beyond. I'll also keep the Firefox 24ESR installer on both of my two desktop computers Desktops and I also plan on putting the Firefox 24ESR installer on 4 thumb (flash) drives so I'll never lose them.

The next ESR version after Firefox 24ESR should be Firefox 31ESR so I figure I'm good for at least 54 weeks until Firefox 31ESR comes out and I'll see what this version looks like and see how much damage has been done to it by the Firefox "developers".

I'll also have to do the same thing in Linux Mint since Mint does not have the ESR versions of Firefox in their linux ubuntu repository. In Mint, at this time, the non ESR version of Firefox is the installed browser by default. I'll remove Firefox completely via the Synaptic Package Manager and then download Firefox 24ESR, again from the installer, for 64-bit linux directly from the Mozilla site and install it in Linux Mint using the GDebi Package Installer.

The Firefox 24ESR version for linux, via the installer, will also be put on the same 4 thumb (flash drives). I want to cover all of my bases as best as I can.

[Sajadi]

All the more reason to use Pale Moon?

Sure, i will if it is absolutely sure that Palemoon is able to avoid Australis to 100% - Until that moment i watch the matter of Australis from a small Windows/Linux Browser Project Because i do not trust Mozilla anylonger, i guess it is better making a decision when it is really possible to make a decision... hopefully a decision for moving to Palemoon

Btw. Anyone already thinking about another possible bad matter which Australis will bring with it with a higher possibility - the amount of Future possible compatible add-ons and Themes with Palemoon will be for sure more limited as compared to the situation right now... if they start to rely on Australis :/

[Moonchild]

I said it before and I'll say it again: I have no intention whatsoever to move Pale moon to the Australis UI. I think it's a monstrosity, removes the ability to customize that has been the browser's strength by no longer allowing tab position choice, additional toolbars, a status bar and other essential things for user interface customization and extensibility.
If needed I'll write my own interface from scratch when the time comes and the current UI can't be ported forward.