Development going in wrong direction I think

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Rudd_T
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Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Rudd_T » 2022-12-06, 10:09

Hello

I have used Pale Moon as my default browser for some time now /min 3 years /. I am now concern about where Pale Moon goes. From my point of view It goes direction extinction. Why ? Simple, at the beginning everything was workking for me. Almost every website was functioning if not that was almost 99% problems with my privacy addons. I need to disable some of them and everything was back to functioning state. Lately and i mean after i think Pale Moon crossed version number 29. Problems with browsing websites intensified dramatically. I use to come to this forum to report websites which are problematic. it all started with my email client tutanota.com. I started to get error messages but it was still functional. Right now it does not display content of emails at all. It is just one example. I think right now almost 40 % of websites i visit does not work correctly or at all with Pale Moon. I stopped reporting them because i don't have time to report 20 of them at a time. Today for example binance.com, obi.com, ing.com, https://sso.raiffeisen.at/mein-login/ all of them are not functioning correctly last one is bank account which i use frequently. I need to switch to Brave browser to properly use those, or to be able use them at all.

I really want to use Pale Moon as my main browser. If i have to switch between Pale Moon and other browsers to have website displayed properly or functioning at all. Then i ask what is a point of using Pale Moon at all ? I am not typical, user for me privacy means a lot. But other people who want to start with Pale moon they will be gone in a second with current functionality. Other who already use Pale moon will stay little bit longer and they also will be gone Developing mindset "no, lets use other browser because in Pale Moon it will probably not work" I will be probably one of the last users to go, but i will be gone also. because i don't see the point of using browser for privacy reasons when in 40 % of the time i have to expose it to be able to use it.
I don't know what can be done but something must be done as browser without users is an extinct browser.
I can also understand that websites are build more and more in a way which conflicts with privacy but the is sure the way to improve functionality of Pale Moon.
I want to make it clear it is not that i complain. I am concern because i really want to be able to use Pale moon. I know it is hard and not an easy work you guys doing here.
I want to help in anyway i can to change direction Pale Moon goes. I am not a programmer but if there is any way i can help i will do.

All Best to You all
Thomas

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Pentium4User » 2022-12-06, 10:23

The problem is that Google now rules the web "standards". They often change them and there are developers needed who can change the browser after the "standards" changed.
I still use a 64 bit capable Pentium 4 670 processor with Pale Moon.

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Lucio Chiappetti » 2022-12-06, 17:24

It's not Pale Moon, it's the world going in the wrong direction !
Off-topic:
Maybe we should move this to offtopic. Take this example, I just received an invitation for a survey about health habits by my regional health agency. In the form of a sealed postcard, which contained inside a QR code, and, for those who can't use it ... as me on a desktop :D , an URL, which I copy here, if it is personal I don't care, https://research.ats-milano.it/1/5DckeFH : I typed it in Pale Moon, got a spinner spinning and perhaps after a while a "Oops something went wrong". OK. I said , it's the usual googlified stuff, and typed the URL in chrome. First got the same, then, after some random clicking, it started a silly audio and video by some unknown, to me, singer or actor, and after that a button which took me into a plain, normal survey questionnaire.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. (G.B. Shaw)

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Rudd_T
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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Rudd_T » 2022-12-06, 21:16

I dont give a F88k about world after JFK, WTC, Plandemie America seen as savior of the world especially after what they have don to Marshall island. I do give F99k about Pale Moon Privacy and keeping Google Facefu*k insta linkedin Tik tok and all other bullshait as far away as possible. There Must be a way to somehow adapt to those crazy ways. I always try to find a way and there is always one.
Adaptation by resigning from day to day use of internet is not the one i choose. I dont know if Brave browser is anyway better in privacy then chrome edge or firefox. I really use it when necessary. But seriously what is the problem behind all of this intensification of problems with Pale Moon. Why its not working for example tutanota.com Why it stopped to work on pale moon
Here is the log:


Feedback v3.105.4 - DbError - UNKNOWN - Browser
Client: Browser
Type: UNKNOWN
Tutanota version: 3.105.4
Timestamp (UTC): Tue, 06 Dec 2022 21:14:51 GMT
User agent:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Goanna/5.2 Firefox/102.0 PaleMoon/31.4.1
DbError
Error message: IndexedDbTransaction get().catch
OSes: {"0":"MetaData"}
event:{"code":11,"message":"An attempt was made to use an object that is not, or is no longer, usable","result":2152923147,"name":"InvalidStateError","filename":"https://mail.tutanota.com/worker.js","l ... NE_ERR":25}
transaction.error: <null>
event.target: <null>
event.target.error: <null>
custom.target: <null>
custom.target.error: <null>
Stacktrace:
DbError. IndexedDbTransaction get().catch
OSes: {"0":"MetaData"}
event:{"code":11,"message":"An attempt was made to use an object that is not, or is no longer, usable","result":2152923147,"name":"InvalidStateError","filename":"https://mail.tutanota.com/worker.js","l ... NE_ERR":25}
transaction.error: <null>
event.target: <null>
event.target.error: <null>
custom.target: <null>
custom.target.error: <null>
_handleDbError@https://mail.tutanota.com/worker.js:12:24755
get/<@https://mail.tutanota.com/worker.js:12:23120
get@https://mail.tutanota.com/worker.js:12:22911
init@https://mail.tutanota.com/worker.js:12:66757

Can somebody explain it to me in plain English please

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Pelican » 2022-12-07, 05:16

Rudd_T wrote:
2022-12-06, 21:16
https://mail.tutanota.com
Is that a webmail solution that you are having a problem with?

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by andyprough » 2022-12-07, 05:45

Rudd_T wrote:
2022-12-06, 21:16
Why its not working for example tutanota.com Why it stopped to work on pale moon
Tutanota has recently changed the way it displays its webmail and it no longer works on Pale Moon. We discussed it recently here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28613

You should read this post in particular about the technologies that are being developed over time on Pale Moon to deal with this type of problem: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28613#p230423

For right now however, Tutanota does not display correctly. You should use a secondary browser when accessing your Tutanota webmail. As I mentioned in that thread, if you are simply looking for a secure email provider that gives you similar features to Tutanota, then you should be aware that Protonmail is working very well in Pale Moon.

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by jobbautista9 » 2022-12-07, 05:59

It's really better to just use Tutanota's "desktop" app at this point. Even if it's really just a glorified web app, it's how their devs intend their desktop users to use their mail.

To be honest I'd just look for another email provider that supports IMAP and POP3 if I were you. Despite whatever Tutanota says, IMAP and POP3 are perfectly fine protocols, and secure enough if you're using TLS for the mail transport and PGP for end-to-end encryption. In fact I'd argue that Tutanota's proprietary way of handling mail is less trustworthy, as it's not as mature as the decades-old IMAP, POP3, and PGP. Any mail service that advertises "being more secure than IMAP/POP3/PGP" should be a red flag.
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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by BenFenner » 2022-12-07, 14:07

Rudd_T wrote:
2022-12-06, 10:09
If i have to switch between Pale Moon and other browsers to have website displayed properly or functioning at all. Then i ask what is a point of using Pale Moon at all ?
For the superior privacy, security, UI customizability, extension capability, and responsive development team, to name a few.
For the sites that do work, you gain all of that.

Just because your usage is waning, doesn't mean anything is going extinct. You're also placing the blame in the wrong place. None of this is the fault of Pale Moon or the developers.
The title of this thread is absurd. The direction of Pale Moon development has not changed with regard to your concerns. It remains exactly as it was, and has been, for the ~13+ years or whatever Moonchild has been directing the show.

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Rudd_T » 2022-12-07, 16:13

BenFenner wrote:
2022-12-07, 14:07
Just because your usage is waning, doesn't mean anything is going extinct. You're also placing the blame in the wrong place. None of this is the fault of Pale Moon or the developers.
The title of this thread is absurd. The direction of Pale Moon development has not changed with regard to your concerns. It remains exactly as it was, and has been, for the ~13+ years or whatever Moonchild has been directing the show.


So its direction Extinction. Will Pale moon get new users ? I don't think so. Why? People are lazy. Will current users stay with pale moon not all of them, if they have to use other browser for normal internet browsing. Not seeing that is simply heading toward a wall with your eyes shut. Pretending there is no wall at all. I have seen lots of that kind of behavior in life. Companies with dominance power in a market. thinking we rule here. Now they are long forgotten. I Want to have privacy I love Pale Moon. It is just a concern. Maybe something can be done to increase compatibility with so called "browsing google standards". Absurd will be to use electric car for 40% of the distance and then for the rest of it a Muscle car V12 hemi with ecology in mind.
As i said I do not complain nor do i put blame on anyone. I do switch browser, first choice is always Pale Moon. But lately i have do do it a lot. That fact raised my concerns. You can make the best browser in the and most private world if the browsing function doesn't work its useless. What i see here is the start of problem with Browsing. Right now its for my 30% not working to 60% working 10$ needs tweak to work web sites. If You remember beginning of internet as i do then Netscape was great IE was total crap. Result ?
Better to raise hand before is to late and that post is exactly meant for that purpose. Something needs to be done sooner or later.
13 years of development with no change sounds to me like Microsoft way of thinking mindset F**K the user we know better what our product should do and what users wants.
I love nature is pure and ruthless its adapt or die. People tend to forget wisdom of nature.

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Moonchild » 2022-12-07, 17:29

Thanks for sharing your opinions.
But kindly do not insinuate I don't care about progress or don't care about the user or don't work every day to try and adapt the browser and platform to the changing landscape because then you clearly have not understood what it takes.
Rudd_T wrote:
2022-12-07, 16:13
As i said I do not complain nor do i put blame on anyone.
I'm sorry but that is not what the rest of your post states.
"The best revenge is to not be like the person who wronged you." -- Marcus Aurelius
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Rudd_T » 2022-12-07, 17:58

I am sorry if all that You can read is me complaining or putting blame one anybody. I LOVE PALE MOON simply just skipped your attention or PALE MOON IS MY FIRST CHOICE. That is perfectly normal people tend to see negativity first. It is my concern as a day to day user.
We will see where Pale moon will go. I dont know if You can see market share in browsers. If You can You will see not a gain but loss. I just wanted to raise this concern. Yes i do understand what it takes as i am working with programmers day to day. I can be really pain in the ass when it goes to functionally of the software.
In the end most of the time they agree with my point of view. Programmers think little bit different then users. I just simple hate to see waste of good program that is all and i believe Pale Moon is still the one.

Take for example my wife typical user. I have installed everything on her pc. Custom Os - read gutted windows. All programs she needed for work and leisure all of them opensource or paid. Browser of course Pale Moon. After a week what did i saw. Perfect f&&king chrome user. Why did You do that i asked. Answer was Pale Moon not working on amazon zalando media markt airbnb youtube working slow and list goes on typical user like probably 80 -90 % of them.
what does it tells me or You. Palemoon is not for everyone of course but still she had a point. Its not exercise its function - browsing. I believe good programs should gain users not scare them. If we want to change current goggle direction world goes.
Another question if i am to switch browser for the web sites which does not work - no solution to me at all in longer period of time. I use Pale moon to keep data offline and if it does not work i have to go bare naked ass when i switch to other browser ? I hope you get meaning it just looks stupid. Here i am protecting my privacy and then i expose all of my data. That is why i asked what is the point

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Re: Development going in wrong direction I think

Unread post by Falna » 2022-12-08, 00:48

Rudd_T wrote:
2022-12-07, 17:58
Pale Moon not working on amazon zalando media markt airbnb youtube working slow
If you have problems for particular sites, it's worth searching the forum first, and asking for advice if nothing's found - there may be a solution. For example there are extensive discussions concerning YouTube and I use it daily with no problem and no lag. I can also use Amazon at an acceptable speed. For a few other sites I do use a secondary browser, but a low percentage of the total.

As for development, it does include improving compatibility as mentioned in the road map. Maybe you could persuade some of the programmers that you work with to contribute - that may speed things up :)

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