Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Support board for people running on (retail/OEM) Windows XP (32/64-bit).

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This is a self-serve support board for our community. The development team can't provide any support for Windows XP (and compatible versions of Pale Moon for it) any longer.
wsn90

Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby wsn90 » Sat, 09 Jul 2016, 17:03

It's unfortunate that Pale Moon has run out of time and resources to keep the support going for XP. A very warm thanks for keeping it going so long. I've cherished using PM.

In response to the internet's ubiquitous, regurgitated propaganda about XP having 'seen its day,' I would say that, in my 25 years of casual, general computer use, my present experience (using a SATA slipstreamed version of XP, on recent hardware) has never been better or faster. XP also continues to be supported by the excellent free programs LibreOffice, GIMP, VLC media player, Audacity, as well as Vuescan and almost all printer and camera manufacturers.

That XP was also designed with the individual in mind also resonates with me. Not only can XP be easily fine-tuned to the users' preference, but one also gets the sense with XP that it's the user that commands, and the system that obeys. I sense the opposite with subsequent MS OS offerings, which disable choice and increase surveillance, and which were really designed (as seen in MS' own marketing literature) more for the wants and needs of corporations than for individuals.

For me, upgrading from XP would be much more than just a simple technical task. In addition to the loss of my familiar, friendly, finely-tuned system that I have no complaints about, an upgrade would also create multiple headaches due to the purchase, activation, and learning of various new replacement software. Compounding my predicament is that I not only have three of my own machines to service, but five others that I volunteer to maintain for some elderly, PC-challenged friends.

In planning for the transition away from PM, I would like to solicit from the PM staff, and anyone else, your ideas on 'Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?'

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby helloimustbegoing » Sat, 09 Jul 2016, 17:34

Your post has spurred me to ask this as I have been thinking about this since MC's announcement concerning XP support. What about the 3rd party builds of Pale Moon, such as the SSE build? Won't they continue to work on XP? Or won't it be possible to make an SSE build on version 27?

Off-topic:
wsn90 wrote:
In response to the internet's ubiquitous, regurgitated propaganda about XP having 'seen its day,'

I don't have a problem with the statement that XP "has seen its day." It doesn't get security updates anymore, so that fact by itself does confirm the statement about XP seeing its day (at least to me).

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Moonchild » Sat, 09 Jul 2016, 18:07

If you are staying with an OS that no longer sees updates, running other software that no longer sees updates, then there's no difference if you stay with a version of pale Moon that works on that OS that no longer sees updates, so one of the options included should probably also be "keep using the last version of PM that works on XP".

I'd also welcome any community effort that wants to take the mew milestone source code and creates a community build for XP from it -- but it will come with a few snags for the developers/maintainers that is more than a few tweaks or build configurations, though.
The good news though: The targeted compiler (VS2013CE) for the next milestone still offers XP as a target platform, so it's most certainly possible to make this happen, but main-line development and support will not be keeping XP into account any longer as a code consideration.
Maintainers will have to make code changes and be conscious about what is supported by the NT5 kernel.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

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wsn90

Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby wsn90 » Sat, 09 Jul 2016, 19:32

helloimustbegoing wrote: ...What about the 3rd party builds of Pale Moon


helloimustbegoing, thank you very much. I wasn't aware of the 3rd party builds; they're on my radar now.

************************************

Moonchild wrote: ...one of the options included should be "keep using the last version of PM that works on XP".


Moonchild, thank you very much, too. I like that option :thumbup:

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby x-15a2 » Sat, 09 Jul 2016, 22:20

wsn90 wrote:'Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?'
Navigator

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Sun, 10 Jul 2016, 01:08

x-15a2 wrote:
wsn90 wrote:'Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?'
Navigator


Am I missing something? :think: Why would you encourage someone to use a browser that is over 8 years old
with no updates or upgrades? :?:

Would it not be better to just remain with Pale Moon? :eh:
"And this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause!"

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby x-15a2 » Sun, 10 Jul 2016, 03:08

Thehandyman1957 wrote:Am I missing something?
Yes, jocularity. I was being facetious.
Thehandyman1957 wrote:Why would you encourage someone to use a browser that is over 8 years old
with no updates or upgrades?
I didn't, I answered the question of the OP, "Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?" If I was going to use an outdated OS with no updates or upgrades, why would I care about using an outdated browser with no updates or upgrades? (That was a rhetorical question, don't need an answer.) I won't argue the merits\demerits of continuing to use an outdated OS or associated programs, that's a horse that's already been beaten to death on these forums.

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Sun, 10 Jul 2016, 03:14

x-15a2 wrote:
Thehandyman1957 wrote:Am I missing something?
Yes, jocularity. I was being facetious.
Thehandyman1957 wrote:Why would you encourage someone to use a browser that is over 8 years old
with no updates or upgrades?
I didn't, I answered the question of the OP, "Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?" If I was going to use an outdated OS with no updates or upgrades, why would I care about using an outdated browser with no updates or upgrades? (That was a rhetorical question, don't need an answer.) I won't argue the merits\demerits of continuing to use an outdated OS or associated programs, that's a horse that's already been beaten to death on these forums.


Ahhhh, I see. ;) I was actually wondering if there was a fork of Netscape that I had missed somewhere. :lol:

But I think the difference would be the updated browser would still potentially work on the web.
But I'm sure you already get that. :mrgreen:
"And this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause!"

Thrawn

Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Thrawn » Mon, 11 Jul 2016, 04:59

wsn90 wrote:I sense the opposite with subsequent MS OS offerings, which disable choice and increase surveillance, and which were really designed (as seen in MS' own marketing literature) more for the wants and needs of corporations than for individuals.


Are you open to non-Microsoft offerings? You've already mentioned using a good deal of free software. There are many free operating systems.

In my experience, obtaining free software is actually easier on a free operating system. Have you ever experienced a package manager, either command-line like apt-get & yum, or graphical like Synaptic & PackageKit? Installing, updating, and removing software becomes as simple as managing apps on a smartphone. (Not that you have to use the package manager, but it's so much easier than any other way that I would always recommend it when possible.)

wsn90

Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby wsn90 » Mon, 11 Jul 2016, 07:31

Thrawn, thanks for your thoughts. I'm not really familiar with package mangers or those free Linux OS (one of which I did try using more than 10 years ago, but abandoned in frustration, due to my lack of ability with command-line stuff). My first computer was a Mac 512k in 1985; and I could never 'wrap my head' around why my friends would choose to use that laborious IBM stuff.

If I was younger and had more time, it would be interesting to check out the Synaptic-Linux route;
but, I'm afraid I've become too embedded, for too long (15 years) in an XP niche, where I've fine-tuned the software, hardware and drivers to my liking. What I've lost in performance (or whatever metric) by not getting on the the post XP treadmill, I've made up for in time spent enjoying content-- music, movies, photography, literature, etc.

The good thing here, is that Moonchild has promised me that I can continue using PM without any issues. And, should there be any problems I'll have my attorneys contact his attorneys, and they can work it all out :lol:

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Mon, 11 Jul 2016, 22:18

wsn90 wrote:The good thing here, is that Moonchild has promised me that I can continue using PM without any issues. And, should there be any problems I'll have my attorneys contact his attorneys, and they can work it all out :lol:


You know, real "cool" people say,
my people will contact your people ;) :lol:
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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby LimboSlam » Mon, 11 Jul 2016, 23:07

I'm currently use Pale Moon Atom/XP and Slimjet because they're the only ones providing updates for an outdated OS; yes Firefox is fully operational too, but I prefer not to always keep it maintenance as I find it takes longer and harder to hack/reconfigure it to my liking of degree. Well, at least until support discontinues, which is coming soon either this year or next. Though I'll probably still stick with both as their the most updated and compatible with today's web. Thus are able to run XP.

And don't worry, I have an almost bullet proof layered of protection for my PC.
With Pale Moon by my side, surfing the web is quite enjoyable and takes my headaches away! :)
God is not punishing you, He is preparing you. Trust His plan, not your pain.#‎TrentShelton #‎RehabTime

wsn90

Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby wsn90 » Tue, 12 Jul 2016, 05:09

:lol: :wave: Hi Handyman.

*********************************************************

LimboSlam, thanks for your thoughts. I'll keep Slimjet on my radar.

LimboSlam wrote: ...don't worry, I have an almost bullet proof layered of protection for my PC.


:thumbup:

Thrawn

Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Thrawn » Tue, 12 Jul 2016, 05:22

wsn90 wrote:I'm not really familiar with package mangers

The experience is very similar to installing and removing apps on a smartphone. Literally. You get a catalogue of all the available software, you can search for whatever you want, look at summary information, install or remove with a few clicks. Anything you install is automatically checked for updates; it's a bit like Windows Update on steroids (covering every piece of software, not just the operating system), but without forcing anything.

abandoned in frustration, due to my lack of ability with command-line stuff

I'm pleased to say that you're well behind the times :). The command line is still a first-class citizen for those who like it, and it's a great backup if something goes horribly wrong (because it rarely breaks), but most users don't need it.

I'm afraid I've become too embedded, for too long (15 years) in an XP niche, where I've fine-tuned the software, hardware and drivers to my liking.

OK. It's just that you mentioned having looked into newer Microsoft offerings, and found that they weren't suitable, so I thought you might also like to look at alternatives.

What I've lost in performance (or whatever metric) by not getting on the the post XP treadmill, I've made up for in time spent enjoying content-- music, movies, photography, literature, etc.

Well, keep it in mind for the future. Maybe when you next need to replace your computer, etc?

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby half-moon » Tue, 12 Jul 2016, 15:39

If I had to remain with XP, I might as well use Internet Explorer 6 or Netscape. An outdated browser for an outdated OS; Well atleast for my needs, XP is certainly outdated.

As for the comments about Linux, You do NOT need to use the command line at all.

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Mercury » Wed, 13 Jul 2016, 03:09

half-moon wrote:As for the comments about Linux, You do NOT need to use the command line at all.

I have been hearing this for the past 10 years.

Recently Synaptic started erroring for me. The fix was easy to find on Google, but it required a command-line incantation. There was no GUI method - I looked because I was annoyed about this.

Every Linux installation I've made - every single one - needed command-line work to fix some problem.

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Wed, 13 Jul 2016, 04:54

Back in the XP days.. I'd say commandline was important as well.. While there is little that couldn't be done via GUI.. Sometimes cli was easier.. ALSO, If you use the runbox .. ever.. consider that command line Even in the Vista-era + running control userpasswords2 from a runbox would be the same as doing it from the commandline.. Ther is almost if any way to get the older Users and Passwords control panel applet from GUI :thumbup:

wsn90

Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby wsn90 » Thu, 14 Jul 2016, 01:51

LimboSlam wrote:... XP and Slimjet ...


LimboSlam, thanks again. Today, I had to login to a website that wouldn't let me on with PM or IE8. (Normally when I have a website access issue it's due to Ghostery, and I can gain access by whitelisting the site.)

I ended up having to install Slimjet 10.7, which got me thru to the site.

Unfortunately though, they, too, will be dropping support for XP with SlimJet version 12 / Chromium 52
http://www.slimjet.com/blog/

Thrawn

Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Thrawn » Thu, 14 Jul 2016, 02:29

Mercury wrote:Every Linux installation I've made - every single one - needed command-line work to fix some problem.

The command line is indeed excellent for fixing problems, as I mentioned earlier, since it doesn't easily break.

Since I'm personally quite comfortable with the command line, I'm not really qualified to say whether "every single one" needs it (because I would be there anyway) - but there are quite a lot of people who use Ubuntu, for example, and surely not all of them have fixed it from the command line.

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Re: Which browser would you use if you had to remain with XP?

Unread postby Moonchild » Thu, 14 Jul 2016, 07:43

Off-topic:
I think the main point Mercury wanted to make is not necessarily that the command-line would be "faster" or "easier" or "more robust" for fixing some things, but rather that every Linux distribution, unlike Windows XP, has been giving the experience that they always need something that needs to be fixed by using text mode. I can actually echo his experiences -- I'm not afraid of using the command-line either; hell i grew up on DOS as far as PCs are concerned. But Linux always falls back to command-line and manually editing config files with no GUI alternative to it the moment you stray from simple personalization or need to set up something specific for your hardware, workflow or network. Some progress has been made if you can use a distro out of the box, but it's a massive hurdle for people who are expecting a GUI for more than the absolute basest needs.
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