palemoon-26.0.0.Atom.WinXP / WEPOS

[JodyThornton]

It works - Whew! I was sure it would, but still.

[RJARRRPCGP]

It's no different than software telling you it won't run on a Server OS

That's mostly done with proprietary anti-virus software, because of companies wanting to shove an expensive license don't folks' throats

[JodyThornton]

It's no different than software telling you it won't run on a Server OS

That's mostly done with proprietary anti-virus software, because of companies wanting to shove an expensive license don't folks' throats

I'd have to agree there. Hey the only reason I have MSE working on Windows Server 2003 is because I used the Vista/7 install. It works and detects completely.

Some time back, we had a small debate on this page:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8726&p=59996#p59996

Monchild defends that XP and POSReady are not codebase identical, where I'd say they are. In fact, when I've used ACTUAL POSReady2009, I see no real difference in the OS in of itself. So where I've always considered these OS releases to be akin to each other, Moonchild insists they're not:

Windows Server 2003 <vs> Windows XP x64 Edition
Windows Server 2008 <vs> Windows Vista
Windows Server 2008 R2 <vs> Windows 7
Windows Server 2012 <vs> Windows 8
Windows Server 2012 R2 <vs> Windows 8.1

Given that most people here would concede to not ask Moonchild for support if something goes wrong, I don't see how allowing Pale Moon to execute on an altered XP system impacts Moonchild in any way. Obviously Mozilla doesn't care that much and allows the latest Firefox release to work, and I'd say that have a lot at stake. I'd say let people run what they want, but if they have an issue, don't come crying that something went wrong.

But that's just me.

[Moonchild]

Considering this topic has bugged me (probably like most people upset by this), actually to the point of taking a long walk -- in the stormy weather we have now -- to think things over and clear my head, I think the following is a way forward:

1. First and foremost, I apologize if anyone got blindsided by this. It was never my intention to cause grief or harm.
2. It was also never my intention to decide for you tech savvy people in what way you want to hack your own system - that's entirely up to you (as I've said before). It just created a hard incompatibility with the way Pale Moon is set up and built this go around. Still easy to work around though (kill reg key and voila).
3. Considering the at best spotty reliability of Microsoft's updates on combinations they actually have tested on, this a really big risk to take for combinations they have admittedly completely not tested, but hey, it's your funeral.

Now, to move things along, I will do the following:

1. I will remove the check -- against my better judgement, for all the reasons mentioned in the sticky -- from the browser. This will run the risk of getting support requests in from people who have been "helped" to get "updates for their system past EoL". I don't particularly see a need to go out of my way to get metrics about it in about:support or whatnot. Considering I have some other bugfixes and sec audits to do, this will take place in the next point release that's not too far away.
2. I will make it extremely clear that none of us devs can or will provide support for anything but retail versions of Windows XP that have never been subjected to POSReady updates - basically, if you have applied the hack and downloaded any updates for POSReady onto your XP, it voids your right to get any sort of tech support from us for specific issues you may run into with Pale Moon. You will be on your own.
3. I'll make a separate board on the forum for you POSReady2009 folks to mill around in and help each other like your own sub-community. That is, of course, unless it's considered unnecessary.
4. If too many people decide they need to be dishonest and load support questions on us for what turns out to be an unsupported or hacked operating system, I'll withdraw from XP support entirely. This is a simple, practical necessity to keep workloads under control.

[LoneCrusader]

I'm glad to see that the official position has changed, thank you for that.

I'm still wondering what happened to the last post here though, along with the post I tried to make about 20 minutes ago after it was removed, which never showed up.

Moderator Lobocursor note: I myself approved the post and was shown in my side and then vanished. Don't ask don't tell. Just enjoy coke... er the change.

[huladaddy]

MC, I am impressed by your handling of this situation. POS support is a non-issue for me, so I didn't have a dog in this fight, but I am happy to see you find a solution.

[Thehandyman1957]

All I can say is PLEASE guys, if you have a issue and you have a POS/2009 system. Don't push it with this team and try to scam your way into support.

There are some of us here that rely on Pale Moon to run on our older XP systems that are not hacked, and would be sorely upset to see XP support get axed
earlier than it needs to be.

[vwestlife]

Off-topic:
Are you the same vwestlife on the VC forums?

Yes.

And I find these aspersions regarding people using a "hack" of Windows XP highly amusing, considering that Pale Moon itself is a hack of Firefox...

[hayc59]

Moonchild and Dev team here... I say thank you thank you very much for this decision( Long walks are a very good thing )
I for one will take complete responsibility for what is on my pc and run with it..with a very cool browser letting have fun
on the net, as far as I am concerned this is a mute point and we should take a long walk and thank Moonchild
you all have a great whatever...Gordon

[drharri]

Bravo! Thank you! Спасибо!

[half-moon]

Off-topic:
Are you the same vwestlife on the VC forums?

Yes.

And I find these aspersions regarding people using a "hack" of Windows XP highly amusing, considering that Pale Moon itself is a hack of Firefox...

Well Pale moon isn't a hack, it's a complete fork of firefox.

[Drugwash]

Hello!
I'll be brief - for a lot of people time is money. I hate money but that's off-topic.

The decision to keep supporting the XP systems that employ the so-called 'POSReady hack' is most welcome. Most people that have such system know their way around issues, if any. I have such system myself and never had any major issue with it. Certainly nothing that could be tracked down to the "unsuported" updates.

Considering all the claims on both sides, I'd like to suggest something that could help both: perform the registry check at each startup and if the key is found (and the value is 1, optionally) then add or modify an item in main menu's Help category that would lead to a special subforum on this board (as suggested by Moonchild in a comment above). This way, any not-so-knowledgeable users that may have had their system built by someone else (but not only) would reach the proper place to discuss their issues and possibly find solutions.

This world is going the wrong way, people are being stripped of choices everyday, there will be major unrest someday. We need to be trusted as well as we need to wake up and take responsibilities. But for that we need choices. Thank you Moonchild for giving us back one of them!

(fixed some typos)

[hayc59]

Hello!
...

Hello Drugwash..very well put!!


Moderator note: Please do not quote entire posts. Especially for one-liner responses.
https://forum.palemoon.org/app.php/rules#quotingmessages

[LoneCrusader]

Moderator Lobocursor note: I myself approved the post and was shown in my side and then vanished. Don't ask don't tell. Just enjoy coke... er the change.

I still don't like the fact that it seems some dissent was "censored," but all's well that ends well I guess...

Off-topic:
Funny, never in my life did I think I would be taking to a board to defend Windows XP users. I detest Windows NT in all of its flavors... I just hate all of the versions after XP more. Anyone here who recognizes me from other forums will no doubt see the irony and the humor in this.

[Azarien]

After deliberation, not to mention some heated debate, I will remove the compatibility check from the browser in the next point release (26.0.1).
This means that the risk of serious incompatibilities and the responsibility for it will rest on your, the user's, shoulders.

You could leave the message as a one-time warning (with a "don't show this again" checkbox), and add some "you shall not complain" notification in the About box.

Meanwhile, it's easy to hack palemoon.exe and neutralize the check.

[Drugwash]

Agreed, that's a good common-sense suggestion, Azarien.
A link in the About box could even point to the dedicated subforum, apart from the Help menu entry I suggested above.

The v26.0.0 executable only needs one byte patched to disable the check. Dunno if it would be kosher to post the details here.

A question to the moderator, if I may: would it be possible to add an actual link in the 'Forum rules' header at the top that points to the new subforum for Windowx XP Embedded/POSReady2009 ?

[Moonchild]

Seriously, you want to go and hack the binary for this? You can't wait a few days?

No, please don't post instructions, and whatever you do, please don't start spreading "modded" versions of the binary - that kind of harmful behavior is exactly why I have the binary redistribution license.
This will be solved very soon with an update to the browser.

[Drugwash]

To be honest, I already patched my copy of the binary. It's all for the sake of learning, maybe even for fun.

Obviously I wouldn't distribute patched binaries, don't worry. Knowledgeable people can do the patching themselves if they want to. We've been doing this kind of things for a long time in the Win9x community, ever since M$ tried to shut us down shouting "unsupported". None of my XP machines lasted more than a year, while my 98SE machine says system installed in September 2006 and it's running fine right now, it's actually my main machine. So hacking/patching in itself is not a bad thing when one knows what they're doing - that's what I'm trying to say. And obviously they know not to come crying to the developer when things go wrong.

Anyway, all this is just for the sake of discussion - since the next version will come free of the check there won't be any patch needed.

[Slartibartfast]

I've just registered to say thank you to MoonSavvy for writing that long & compelling post, which I think combined with a nice long walk to get this check removed.



... oh yeah, nearly forgot, thanks developers for making this neat little browser. You are getting hell of people because they like using it.

[drharri]

Regarding those who (on their own risk) have need to run Pale Moon on embedded XP systems, someone might post (here, or if not permitted, elsewhere) a regedit script to toggle the offending registry key when Pale Moon is to be launched. The procedure could then be further automatized with a suitable batch file.

I made some investigation and have to admit that I was mistaken. The HKLM\SYSTEM\WPA registry key and its subkeys are locked by the OS in such a way that changing the values just is not possible otherwise than by booting a different OS installation and by editing the registry from there (it really is not sufficient to change permissions or take ownership). On the other hand, toggling the value of the PosReady key does not appear to have any adverse effect on system stability or behaviour.