How long Palemoon to support XP?

Support board for people running on (retail/OEM) Windows XP (32/64-bit).

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This is a self-serve support board for our community. The development team can't provide any support for Windows XP (and compatible versions of Pale Moon for it) any longer.
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How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby BenlyHar » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:46 pm

A friend of mine is still using XP and I am telling him to get on Win 10. He's adamant on using XP for at least an year. The reason I am pursuing him to get on 10 is due to the malware attacks on previous windows installations.

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Moonchild » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:49 pm

Pale Moon does not provide official support for Windows XP any longer.
We dropped support for it with the latest milestone.
Please see: http://www.palemoon.org/PM_end_of_WinXP_support.shtml
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby BenlyHar » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:55 pm

Moonchild wrote:Pale Moon does not provide official support for Windows XP any longer.
We dropped support for it with the latest milestone.
Please see: http://www.palemoon.org/PM_end_of_WinXP_support.shtml



Bingo! Thanks man. I'll let him know.

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby helloimustbegoing » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:52 pm

Your friend really should install an OS that is still being supported. But if he is adamant about using XP for another year (why a year?), he can use Firefox's ESR version. (I'm not sure if the "regular" FF release still supports XP.)

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Moonchild » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:42 pm

helloimustbegoing wrote:(I'm not sure if the "regular" FF release still supports XP.)

It doesn't. ESR52 is the last Firefox version to support XP (and Vista, for that matter)
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Tony0945 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:57 pm

BenlyHar wrote:A friend of mine is still using XP and I am telling him to get on Win 10. He's adamant on using XP for at least an year. The reason I am pursuing him to get on 10 is due to the malware attacks on previous windows installations.

Please don't tout Win10. it's a virus. Have you actually read the license agreement? The part where they assert the right to examine EVERY file on your computer and summarily delete any file that IN THEIR SOLE OPINION is illegal? I won't allow it on my network, let alone on my personal computer. The Win 7 interface is marginally acceptable, but that stupid Win 8 cell phone interface is garbage.

Try to get your friend to switch to Linux unless he has applications that require Windows. There is a Linux application called rdesktop by which you can open a remote connection to your Windows computer and run it either as a window or a full desktop. I use it on my Linux computer on the first floor to access the XP computer on the second floor or the Win 7 computer in the basement (it just records TV). Palemoon on Linux is great. Unfortunately we are all losing Fossamail.

His XP computer is probably pretty old. If he buys one of those new cheap APU computers, he can install Linux on it, wiping out the Win10 virus. He can even share keyboard, mouse and monitor with a KVM switch. Remember it's YOUR computer, not Microsoft's.

For XP users I recommend Devuan Linux with the Mate desktop. It's pretty close to the XP interface. Or FreeBSD with Lumina, which can be customized to look like XP, although it takes some work. Both are free of Microsoft and Microsoft wannabee, systemd. I, myself, use Gentoo, but it takes some technical knowledge and prior familiarity with Linux or UNIX.

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Moonchild » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:21 pm

I really wouldn't recommend any flavor of Linux to any die-hard XP user. At least not yet. I do agree with the position that Windows 10, i.e. "Windows as a Service" and all it pertains may certainly not go over very well. He may want to consider getting Windows 7, instead. It tends to run just fine on computers "Designed for Windows XP" although it'll be a little heavier on the resources.
For example, I recently upgraded 2 very old systems from XP to 7 (one old acer netbook (Atom) and an old dell SFF computer (Pentium IV)) and they are very happily running it.
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby adesh » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:57 pm

Moonchild wrote:For example, I recently upgraded 2 very old systems from XP to 7 (one old acer netbook (Atom) and an old dell SFF computer (Pentium IV)) and they are very happily running it.

Off-topic:
Can you tell me how I can get Win7 these days? Last time I checked I couldn't find it on Windows store; had to go with Linux on my other system. Buying a laptop preinstalled with 7 is not an option.

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Moonchild » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:12 pm

Off-topic:
adesh wrote:Can you tell me how I can get Win7 these days? Last time I checked I couldn't find it on Windows store; had to go with Linux on my other system. Buying a laptop preinstalled with 7 is not an option.


You should be able to find Windows 7 disks/ISOs just about anywhere (except the Microsoft store). The only thing that might get tricky is buying a license to be able to install and activate it. To be fair I don't know anything practical to help you since I have inherited volume licensing from past employment and business, so I never have an issue installing Win 7 on anything.
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby helloimustbegoing » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:15 pm

Off-topic:
adesh wrote:
Can you tell me how I can get Win7 these days?

Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/?_nkw=windows%207

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Tony0945 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:21 am

Yes, I bought a win 7 license on ebay from a Canadian builder last year. I find Linux more familiar than Win7 but YMMV. I did spend many years working in a Unix environment. In about two years, win7 will have the same problem as XP. Linux will evolve, win7 won't and Microsoft will "pwn all of you bases".

I would advise anyone not familiar with Linux or Unix, download and burn a live dvd and play with it awhile before committing. Many people plunge into Linux expecting a free Windows. it's not. It's a free Unix. The paradigm is different. Best for the non-technical to find a friend to install it for them.

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby GigaWatt » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:04 am

This has obviously turned into a Linux vs. Windows thread, but, hey, that's how things are on forums :).

As many pointed out, support for Pale Moon on Windows XP ended about a year ago (correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was around April last year... or so) and... that is that. Pale Moon, or any other browser for that matter can't correct the security holes of the OS. In some part, yes, and it did, for some time. But, after a while, it just get's tiresome. Security hole after security hole... considering that when a new version of Windows is released, basically, there are almost no product updates (some optimization on current product features, here and there, but real product updates, almost none), only security updates, the only thing you can rely on on a certain version of Windows is for the Microsoft team to patch a security hole :roll:... when even that isn't working (Microsoft abandoning support), there is not much point in keeping the current code base up to date when the problem is the OS itself.

When it comes to Linux vs. Windows, sure, I agree with a lot of you when you're saying "just switch to Linux". Win7 will only be supported for 2 more years, so there is no point to stick with Microsoft, right ;). But, consider this. Imagine you've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in Adobe licenses (you're a TV or a big production company). So... if some IT guy says to his boss that, just because of the browser their employes are using (which, BTW, he recommended and installed/maintained), we have to switch to Linux because Windows 10 has this whole TOS that kind of spies on what you do and what files are being shared, downloaded and whatnot, you know what would happen to the IT guy? He would probably stay out of a job.

Sure, I agree, Win8 and 10 have many "flaws" (read "spyware/bloatware", amongst many of the already mentioned UI flaws), but there are also a lot of tools that people have been working on to "fix" (read "remove" updates that are actually spying on what you do) or ways to block them. You could always disable those services or block them with a firewall... heck, you could even do it with the integrated Windows Firewall ;) :D (I have ;)).

The point is, yes, you could suggest an OS change to a single user (a friend, a relative, a colleague, whatever). But, when it comes to corporate environments... in the long run, you'll end up either being overworked and not paid enough (compatibility issues with WINE and Windows programs/licenses which the company paid for... and the money from those Win10 licenses which the company intended to buy won't end up in your pocket, believe me :roll:) or out of a job... the latter being more probable.
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Moonchild » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:15 am

One important thing to note is that we did not drop XP support just for the potential security risk of running that O.S. -- in the end, that is the user's risk to take. It was one of several factors/considerations, and by itself would certainly not account for the need to drop support for it.
From a technical perspective, the technology available in NT 5.* based operating systems was simply holding us back and becoming a real mismatch (not in the least DX9, kernel restrictions, inability to use certain big optimizations, etc.). See the other points on the page I linked to.
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby vwestlife » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:36 pm

Tony0945 wrote:Please don't tout Win10. it's a virus. Have you actually read the license agreement? The part where they assert the right to examine EVERY file on your computer and summarily delete any file that IN THEIR SOLE OPINION is illegal?

I am the last one to defend or promote Windows 10, but that is simply not correct. You're repeating a rumor that has been spread around the Linux blogosphere for over two years now, despite being totally false.

First of all, what you're referring to is actually in the Microsoft privacy policy, not the Windows 10 EULA. It states: "We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the products you use." But apparently the conspiracy theorists forgot to keep reading, since that section is specifically referring to files you upload to OneDrive, not files on your hard drive:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/no-microso ... indows-10/

As ZDNet concluded, "there's no risk that Microsoft is gathering the contents of your local hard disk and sending it to anyone. Zero. Microsoft is under a microscope, constantly, with its every move examined by security experts and privacy advocates. ... You'd think if [Windows 10 users'] hard drives were being scoured someone might have noticed. But so far, no word from anyone who actually knows how to use a network analyzer. Because it's not happening."

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Tony0945 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:39 pm

I could have upgraded from Win7 to Win10 for free, but I did read the EULA. That's what I read. Nothings about uploading, just deleting whatever they thought was pirated or illegal.
I didn't read anything on the web so it's not rumor. If, as you say, I'm not reading it correctly, maybe they shouldn't have written it so broadly. I'm not a lawyer, but I know that I will never click "I agree" to those terms, which were not in the XP or win7 agreements.

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Tony0945 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:49 pm

What I plan to do, is the following.

Keep my XP computer.
Buy a KVM and build a really cheap Ryzen 3 bare bones Linux computer.
Plug the new computer into the existing ethernet switch.
Run Palemoon and Thunderbird (Fossamail being defunct) on the Linux computer.
Run "rdesktop" from Linux to do things on the XP computer (SageTV and MsMoney), switching the KVM as needed.

I already do this from my downstairs computer. The el cheapo linux box upstairs will mean no stair climbing and I never have to worry if some web site decides to not let me access because I'm running XP as my e-mail sender recently notified me (they won't take e-mails from XP after October).

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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Thehandyman1957 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:01 pm

Tony0945 wrote:What I plan to do, is the following.
I'm running XP as my e-mail sender recently notified me (they won't take e-mails from XP after October).


What??? :wtf: So even if you using up to date email software they are going to kick you to the curb? :thumbdown:

I better stop here before I say something else. :silent:
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby GigaWatt » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:12 am

This was eventually expected at some point... if you're using an MS OS.

What do you think will happen when they drop support for Win7/2008R2 :roll:.
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby Thehandyman1957 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:52 am

Well, my two cents on this thought is that there are so many people on W7 that it would be awhile before I have to worry about that.

There is a lot of folks, including a lot of businesses that won't upgrade to W10. So we'll see.

And seeing that the foundation for 10 is almost the same as W7 (NT6) I don't see there being a problem for some time.
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Re: How long Palemoon to support XP?

Postby BenlyHar » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:30 am

Moonchild wrote:I really wouldn't recommend any flavor of Linux to any die-hard XP user. At least not yet. I do agree with the position that Windows 10, i.e. "Windows as a Service" and all it pertains may certainly not go over very well. He may want to consider getting Windows 7, instead. It tends to run just fine on computers "Designed for Windows XP" although it'll be a little heavier on the resources.
For example, I recently upgraded 2 very old systems from XP to 7 (one old acer netbook (Atom) and an old dell SFF computer (Pentium IV)) and they are very happily running it.



He has installed Win 7. Discarded XP a few weeks ago. I guess, he made a wise choice. If not Win 10, then Win 7 is also alright for me.


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