Adblock???

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devil

Adblock???

Unread post by devil » 2015-08-03, 15:15

I had Adblock on PM64. Today, I received a notification that it is no longer valid and restarting PM will remove it from add-ons. What ad blocker can be used?


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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by x-15a2 » 2015-08-03, 17:21

To elaborate just a bit, Adblock Latitude is the offical ABP fork that is developed and maintained specifically for Pale Moon and would be a direct replacement for you.

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-08-03, 17:40

I've put it in the blocklist because it has started giving severe usability issues (see the threads with "large bar with red text at the bottom of the browser" etc.). ABP should not be used on any v25+ version of Pale Moon because it's not compatible.
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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by rm118899 » 2015-08-03, 22:48

I would really prefer it if you would only use the block list for add-ons that have security problems or severe stability issues (e.g., a plugin that is very prone to crashing the browser). "Large bar with red text at the bottom of the browser" does not sound like a severe stability issue to me. If you put functioning add-ons with minor glitches on the block list, then people will not take the block list seriously -- they may be inclined to disable the blocking feature altogether.

I have been using ABP 2.3.1 without problems, except the GUI is a bit more difficult to access. While I update plugins like Flash, I don't like to update extensions unless there is a serious need. I don't know about this "large bar with red text at the bottom of the browser" issue. If I google "large bar with red text at the bottom of the browser site:palemoon.org", the only thing that comes up is this thread. I suppose that if I were actually experiencing this glitch myself, I would consider one of the alternatives mentioned above.

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by Frasier » 2015-08-04, 04:27

@rm118899
Well, here are some threads from people requesting help with that "Large bar with red text at the bottom of the browser":

Pale Moon forum • View topic - Latest Update leaves hanging string along my screen's bottom
Pale Moon forum • View topic - [Solved] How do I get rid of this?
Pale Moon forum • View topic - Clear bar with red text at bottom of screen
Pale Moon forum • View topic - How do I remove the red text at the bottom of my screen?
Pale Moon forum • View topic - Strange text box
Pale Moon forum • View topic - Visual issue after updating
Pale Moon forum • View topic - Weird Toolbar Glitch.

Looking around the site you will most likely find other threads where people were complaining of erratic behavior when using Pale Moon and the offender turned out to be ABP.

Since the ABP extension is known to be incompatible with Pale Moon and there are alternatives, placing ABP in the block list is more than reasonable.

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by Retired Magician » 2015-08-04, 05:20

Is there a way I can personally stop PM from blocking Adblock? It was working just fine for me and I was disappointed to see it put on the blocklist. At least give us an option in about:config to turn this block off.

I've installed Latitude for now, but I would prefer to have the original.

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-08-04, 07:29

How difficult is it to understand that even if it installs, it can't properly do its work on Pale Moon because it is not compatible? ABL is a direct fork of ABP that has minimal changes. You're still using ABP, just under a different banner and with the changes included into it that are required for Pale Moon, that the original authors absolutely refused to do (and to this day, absolutely refuse to support Pale Moon as a browser).

The only way to stop Pale Moon from preventing you to use "Original" Adblock Plus is to disable the blocklist as a whole, which is strongly discouraged and can actually cause quite a few issues because it also includes things a like graphic driver blacklist.
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SvenG

Re: Adblock???

Unread post by SvenG » 2015-08-04, 08:09

Sure, using the blocklist is a bit harsh and it is really unfortunate, that there is no way to display a customized error message, but what are the alternatives? Most people just want an adblocker that works, what label is on it doesn't really matter. ABP is "compatible" in the means that it installs and updates and everything but we had a couple of issues during the past weeks or month that could be resolved by deactivating ABP (not just the "Large bar with red text at the bottom of the browser"" type). So, while on first sight it looks like everything is okay, it clearly is not. On the other hand there is a working alternative, well, more than one, actually, but one is virtually identical to ABP, so people do not really loose something. So Moonchild has two alternatives that are both not ideal: a) pissing off a couple of users that want to use ABP by blocking it or b) let other users run into ABP related issues while there is a working almost identical alternative.

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2015-08-04, 08:51

Adblock Plus has not been fully compatible as-is with Pale Moon since October last year with the release of Pale Moon 25.

Here are the original options we were faced with:

1. Do nothing
2. Make the Pseudo-Static then Fork (We did this)

After the Fork was established:

1. Do nothing
2. Capture the request for updates and offer ABL as an upgrade for ABP via the GUID (This did not happen for the original ABP but was eventually done with the Pseudo-Static as the Pseudo-Static modified version and the fork share the same ID)
3. Push off a decision until it starts causing a ton of issues beyond missing UI components. (This is what we did)

After issues started arising:

Adblock Plus as expected left our range of compatibility on a technological level and presented conflicts with ABL (being very close anyway) when users unwisely and in defiance of what was written on the Add-on's page had both installed and even running at the same time causing the conflicting localization xul error (the large bar with red text).

So another set of options came about...

1. Do nothing
2. Constantly deal with threads about the same issue happening for the same reasons because people don't follow instructions or bother to search the forum
3. Add it to the blocklist as an extension that does not work and causes conflicts with Pale Moon and other add-ons (We did this)

In my personal opinion it should have had the upgrade to ABL offered and then subsequently blocked once the fork was completed. But that would go against our fundamental principles of user choice. So it was decided by the Add-ons Team and the Leader of the Pale Moon project to not take the role of thinking for you or pushing you around by force.

However, as indicated we have reached a point where the half to non-functional situations caused by ABP were hampering users and causing conflicts with Pale Moon and other add-ons so it was hard blocked as such. Adblock Plus is considered not compatible and even detrimental today.

There are several options for Ad blocking including OUR nearly identical fork that will simply Just Work(tm) as well as the members of the uBlock Family.

So I would like to, as the Pale Moon Add-ons Site Administrator and Add-ons Team Leader, put this issue to rest.

Thank you for your time, consideration, and understanding.
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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by bonesz » 2015-08-04, 17:58

*removed will no longer commnet on t his topic
Last edited by bonesz on 2015-08-05, 15:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by nana2 » 2015-08-04, 18:47

@bonesz. It was the author of Adblock Plus Wladimir Palant who didn't want to co-operate with Tobin, our Addons developer.
Maybe the developer of ABL should submit the solutions to the ABP team thus fixing the problem instead of limiting one's choice

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-08-04, 19:32

bonesz: Ultimately, we didn't make this choice for you. Mr. Palant made this choice for you.

I am treating this the exact same way I would treat any other extension that would cause severe usability issues for users of it.
And no, just because it doesn't happen for everyone doesn't mean that there isn't an issue that requires attention.

Since ABP's developers are adamant about not supporting Pale Moon and not wanting to address any compatibility and usability issues, we are on our own. Especially so since there was even a latent threat of making a fuss about us using the ABP name on a minimally-changed version of it just to make it install.
They only support Mozilla Firefox, period. As Pale Moon is not Firefox, compatibility issues are always possible, regardless of popularity of an extension. The moment an extension becomes so incompatible that it causes severe issues, something needs to be done - either the extension needs to be updated or the extension needs to be prevented from being used. Since the former is a no-go in the case of ABP, the latter is the only option, especially considering we have a Pale Moon version of this very extension that is not incompatible. We've mentioned many times that, for multiple reasons, ABP is not compatible with us, and that has only gotten worse, not better. Since the version that installs on Pale Moon is also not maintained by the ABP team (they were adamant about not wanting to), there is also no hope of this improving.

EDIT: As an aside, I'll be more than happy to unblock it again if the compatibility issues are addressed by the ABP team, by the way. Also something I would do for any other incompatible extension out there. I just don't think that's very likely to happen.
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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by bonesz » 2015-08-04, 20:18

*removed will no longer comment on this tpoic
Last edited by bonesz on 2015-08-05, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2015-08-04, 20:41

bonesz wrote:I understand and respect your decision. I will however will continue to modify the blacklist and remove ABP and continue to use it. I use it without issue or compatibility issues. I do not use Latitude due to the overly large icon title that takes up too much space.

If you find it necessary to add further protection or prevention methods I will move on to another browser. I have been using this browser since its inception and would hate to switch.
Greetings, You must run with text labels on.. I see how that could be an issue.. Did not anticipate that since most users don't and it hasn't been brought up before now...

I do agree this is an issue.. I think in the next update the Label will be changed to just "ABL" instead of "Adblock Latitude" on the toolbar button.

Would this satisfy your requirements? If there is any other suggestions or bugs you encounter please feel free to create an issue on the ABL Github repo @ https://github.com/Pale-Moon-Addons-Team/adblock-latitude/issues

I will hold off release for a minor update to the 3.0.x versions so we can address your conserns :thumbup:
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chreid

Re: Adblock???

Unread post by chreid » 2015-08-04, 21:28

Moonchild wrote:bonesz: Ultimately, we didn't make this choice for you. Mr. Palant made this choice for you.

I am treating this the exact same way I would treat any other extension that would cause severe usability issues for users of it.
And no, just because it doesn't happen for everyone doesn't mean that there isn't an issue that requires attention.

Since ABP's developers are adamant about not supporting Pale Moon and not wanting to address any compatibility and usability issues, we are on our own. Especially so since there was even a latent threat of making a fuss about us using the ABP name on a minimally-changed version of it just to make it install.
They only support Mozilla Firefox, period. As Pale Moon is not Firefox, compatibility issues are always possible, regardless of popularity of an extension. The moment an extension becomes so incompatible that it causes severe issues, something needs to be done - either the extension needs to be updated or the extension needs to be prevented from being used. Since the former is a no-go in the case of ABP, the latter is the only option, especially considering we have a Pale Moon version of this very extension that is not incompatible. We've mentioned many times that, for multiple reasons, ABP is not compatible with us, and that has only gotten worse, not better. Since the version that installs on Pale Moon is also not maintained by the ABP team (they were adamant about not wanting to), there is also no hope of this improving.

EDIT: As an aside, I'll be more than happy to unblock it again if the compatibility issues are addressed by the ABP team, by the way. Also something I would do for any other incompatible extension out there. I just don't think that's very likely to happen.
Wladimir Palant: "Adblock Plus 2.6.10 stopped using the deprecated JavaScript generators syntax that only Firefox supports. Instead the proper standard-compliant syntax is being used – Firefox 29 and higher supports it, Pale Moon most likely doesn’t (they forked a version of Firefox which is very old by now)."

Quoted in ghacks recent article: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/04/pale-m ... lock-plus/

:shock:

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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2015-08-04, 21:30

Firefox deprecated a lot of things.
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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-08-04, 21:46

chreid wrote:Quoted in ghacks recent article
Now if you would have also read my response in the comments on that article...
They pointedly didn't (and didn't want to) support Pale Moon before all that made it into their extension. To me that looks like a case of finding a reason after the fact. And of course trying to sneak in the (incorrect) "it's an old/outdated version of Firefox" complaint, as well. People don't seem to understand what a "fork" is, even them, who are supposed to be software developers...

Just because we have a common origin point in a by now old and outdated version of Firefox (which I absolutely agree with, by the way. I would not recommend FF24 be used by anyone at this point in time), doesn't mean that we are still at that origin point. What, people still think that Pale Moon is a rebuild with no changes or development? Seriously? It's a FORK. Imagine the utensil. Where it splits into the prongs, does a fork just have one prong that continues? No, they all do, otherwise it wouldn't be a fork, it would be a pick (or something similar). :P
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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by Moonchild » 2015-08-04, 21:58

rm118899 wrote:I would really prefer it if you would only use the block list for add-ons that have security problems or severe stability issues (e.g., a plugin that is very prone to crashing the browser). "Large bar with red text at the bottom of the browser" does not sound like a severe stability issue to me.
It's one of the more visible issues, but certainly not the only one.
Other issues can crop up that make parts of the browser completely unresponsive to input. It may fail completely at blocking elements, as well, make other extensions dysfunctional, ... I can go on. It simply doesn't work reliably and causes issues with the browser on multiple levels. I would prefer to not have to hard-block the extension, as well, but the problems just kept piling up. Since we have a proper alternative with the exact same functionality in ABL, there's also no reason why people should still be running ABP on Pale Moon despite all the advice to the contrary (that is a combination of browser and extension that is neither supported by us, nor by the extension developers... ).
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Re: Adblock???

Unread post by x-15a2 » 2015-08-04, 23:07

It's just amazing to me that people trust Moonchild (and team) to develop their browser but don't trust (or accepted the educated advise of) the same regarding the use of clearly incompatible extension. :eh:

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