Pale Moon UX feature request

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MoonShadow

Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by MoonShadow » 2012-06-08, 03:40

Considering the Pale Moon design goal and philosophy of element grouping and action "expectation", I always wondered why Firefox/Pale Moon has no tab history display on the tab itself. For example, while researching something, I run up a lot of tabs and most of them have an extensive chain of past viewed pages for that tab.
When I want to clean up and close a large group of tabs, I need to check each chain before closing the tab to be certain I don't lose a page I wanted to keep. Presently, this involves activating the tab then moving the mouse to the back/forward button, R-click or click-hold it to display the list of viewed pages, then back to the close button on the tab. When there are a ton of tabs there's also a lot of back and forth mousing. I can't believe I could be the only one who finds this an annoyance. If I'm missing something, perhaps someone could enlighten me.
The solution seems obvious to me:
Nothing happens when I left-click or click-hold on the currently active tab. What a waste. What a time saver it would be to have the tab's list of site visits be a dropdown list with first item being to close the tab. A quick look-see and zap.
To clean up, I work through a group of tabs in a non-sequential order. That makes putting the feature on the tab itself preferable to adding a close-tab entry in the dropdown on the back/forward button because closing from there always activates an adjacent sequential tab, either left or right. (However, I never understood why there wasn't one there too.) Some addons will activate the parent tab after closure, but that's still not versatile enough.
There's one more addition to my "oh, gee, I wish there was a way" list. Even if the above were implemented as described, it is still a two step process to first active the tab, then pull down the drop-list. Wouldn't it be nice to have the tab activation, dropdown list and option to close the tab all performed with a single click. Unfortunately, the Right-click, Ctrl-left click, Alt-left click, Shift-left click and middle mouse key are already taken. However all the chorded combinations are still available: Ctrl+Shift+left-click, Alt+Shift+left-click, and Ctrl+Alt+left-click. And so is a fast double-click, which also would be efficient.
Anyone know of a Theme, Greasemonky or AutoHotKey script that can accomplish this?
Thanks,
--Bill

lyceus

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by lyceus » 2012-06-09, 03:03

Well if you left click, hold button and move the cursor something happens: You start to select text in the page. So this is a behavior that is embed into all browsers (some pages catch the left click with javascript for avoid that you "copy and pasta" text from them), so just one left click indicate the browse that you are dismissing what you already selected,if none is selected nothing is dismissing. So maybe we can discard this button since it already have a function but is not always used.

MoonShadow

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by MoonShadow » 2012-06-09, 18:46

@lobocursor: You raise good points. Thanks for the input. Just to be sure we're on the same wavelength though, I'm referring to the tab label at the top and not the contents of the page displayed below the tab. Doing what you suggest on the tab per se is a drag 'n drop operation that opens the tab in a new window (on my system at least) and not text selection that appears to be what you are describing.

By the way, in retrospect, I only subsequently discovered that I probably should have posted this under the topic thread: Browser_Development/Suggestions_feature_requests rather than Support/Add-ons. Since you are one of the moderators on both, any problems if I re-post there?

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Moonchild
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Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by Moonchild » 2012-06-09, 19:21

I moved it from suggestions to here, since it would be better suited to be implemented in an add-on and the question was "Anyone know of a Theme, Greasemonky or AutoHotKey script that can accomplish this?"

As for your concern, pressing and holding a tab would confuse with the tab drag functionality. You can left-click drag a tab to reorder tabs, or even pull them out of the tab bar to move them to a separate window automatically, or drag/drop them in bookmarks or to the desktop, etc.
Left-clicking a tab header is therefore already occupied with plenty of functionality, and your request would be to alter this behavior - which is best done with an extension.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

MoonShadow

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by MoonShadow » 2012-06-09, 20:12

@Moonchild: Well, I don't want to muck up a system that works well as it stands. Not sure why drag 'n drop gets confused because nothing currently happens when I click an active tab or click 'n hold on it. Ah well, it is what it is. Hopefully someone will pick up on adding the close option to the drop down list on the forward/back button. I doubt that part would fall under the domain of the Tab Mix Plus folks, and I don't need the overhead of another ad-hoc add-on. I'm no programmer, but I'd guess AutoHotKey might do at least part of the job. Maybe I'll see if I could chain together a couple of mouse gestures using FireGesture. Don't know how much capability is actually there though.

At any rate, I appreciate your taking the time to educate me. Thank you.

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Moonchild
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Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by Moonchild » 2012-06-09, 20:18

It would confuse the current system; just think about it. A user clicks and holds the mouse down on a tab - do they want to drag it, or do they want to open the history menu? From a mouse gesture point of view, there would be no way to discern between clicking and dragging the mouse to select a history item in a menu and clicking and dragging to drag the actual tab.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

MoonShadow

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by MoonShadow » 2012-06-09, 20:28

@Moonchild: Got it! Thanks again for the help

lyceus

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by lyceus » 2012-06-10, 05:13

MoonShadow wrote:@lobocursor: You raise good points. Thanks for the input. Just to be sure we're on the same wavelength though, I'm referring to the tab label at the top and not the contents of the page displayed below the tab. Doing what you suggest on the tab per se is a drag 'n drop operation that opens the tab in a new window (on my system at least) and not text selection that appears to be what you are describing.

By the way, in retrospect, I only subsequently discovered that I probably should have posted this under the topic thread: Browser_Development/Suggestions_feature_requests rather than Support/Add-ons. Since you are one of the moderators on both, any problems if I re-post there?
Don't worry, really we take seriously the feedback from other users. We use Palemoon daily and we are aware that people have other ways to browse. We often move the thread if the messages changes of direction, don't worry for that. ;)

As you meant is that we have a system that is "point and click" since the first versions of Windows (also taken from Macintosh and Xerox OSes). Some behaviors are inherit from Windows indeed, the "copy and pasta" stuff I did mention works in notepad, word, explorer and all other windows apps so we cannot change that. As Moonchild already mentioned those changes may confuse the program and not perform what you do want to do; a safer way is to "shop" for some add-on.

Micster

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by Micster » 2012-06-10, 10:29

@MoonShadow: Should you change your mind about add-ons, there are two I'd like to mention, you could possibly find useful for what you need, that is history in the tab, and what you described as "A quick look-see and zap.".

1) Regarding the history in the tab there's a somewhat old add-on for this called "Tab History Menu", found here:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... tory-menu/

According to Mozilla, the latest version 2.1.1 is supposed to compatible with Firefox 3.0 and later, but to install it in Pale Moon Portable 12.2, I had to actually bump the maximum version up in the install.rdf file.

2) And, for a fast closing of the active tab with a hotkey, the add-on is called "EscCloseTab (1.2)", available here:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... cclosetab/

Again, bumping up maximum version of Firefox might be required to install it in Pale Moon 12.2.

Regardless those max version incompatibilities, the add-ons work for me just fine, without any problems.

MoonShadow

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by MoonShadow » 2012-06-10, 16:37

@Micster: Perfect!! An awesome, elegant, and beautiful combination. Actually BETTER than what I was proposing. It's now a simple two-fisted action: L-click twice on a
tab (First to activate it, then to drop the history list), a quick check to be sure there's nothing I need to keep, then two taps of the escape key (to dismiss the history list, then
kill the tab.) Mouse click with one hand, poke escape with the other hand. Nothing to it! I can cull a non-sequential group of tabs in no time at all.

BONUS: I run a dark blue solid color theme making me squint to see the black close target "X" on the tab. EscCloseTab allowed me to get rid of the tab's close button
altogether (using Tab Mix Plus) which makes more space on each tab for another character or two. Very helpful in a crowded tab bar.

Another advantage: TabHistoryMenu is faster than the fore/back button in dropping down a history list because the navigation buttons have a perceptible lag while it waits
to be sure you really intended to do a click-hold operation and aren't being just a little slow on releasing on the mouse key.

I also like the ability offered by the author of Tab History Menu to middle-click a list entry to load it into a new tab.

So Miscter, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. That's what I love about these forums: smart people helping challenged plebes like myself.

@Moonchild: I was happy to read your February 2, 2012 review in the add-on's description of EscCloseTab in which you advocate it "should be FF-standard" and "-highest
recommended". Micster has provided yet another reason to make this standard. I also noted that the author says it was the "simplest ever extension", so I expect it should take
minimal resource overhead.

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Moonchild
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Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by Moonchild » 2012-06-10, 16:44

MoonShadow wrote:I was happy to read your February 2, 2012 review in the add-on's description of EscCloseTab in which you advocate it "should be FF-standard" and "-highest
recommended". Micster has provided yet another reason to make this standard. I also noted that the author says it was the "simplest ever extension", so I expect it should take
minimal resource overhead.
:) Well, that wasn't me. I have a "bit" better command of the English language, and if you checked the profile of that user, you'd see they are German.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

MoonShadow

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by MoonShadow » 2012-06-11, 18:53

Well, Shades of the moon!! Even Moonchild casts a moon shadow. You know what they say: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Too bad the other guy had to hide in your shadow. Maybe it's his kind of virtual reality. At least he didn't steal your avatar. His is kind of "squirrely".

Micster

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by Micster » 2012-06-11, 19:16

MoonShadow wrote:@Micster: Perfect!! An awesome, elegant, and beautiful combination. Actually BETTER than what I was proposing. It's now a simple two-fisted action: L-click twice on a tab (First to activate it, then to drop the history list), a quick check to be sure there's nothing I need to keep, then two taps of the escape key (to dismiss the history list, then
kill the tab.) Mouse click with one hand, poke escape with the other hand. Nothing to it! I can cull a non-sequential group of tabs in no time at all.
@MoonShadow,

Well, I'm glad to hear, MoonShadow, that those two add-ons are the answer for you.

Here, I'd just like to add a tip that another way of closing the history drop down menu is done by clicking again on the tab, or anywhere outside of it. This is in case you haven't noticed it already. For me, for example, it's that a single tap on the escape key just feels more natural, at least most of the time. But then, I use the tab close button, too. It takes care of both, the menu and the tab, at the same time. Anyway, at the end, it's all about someone's particular preferences. And, that's perfectly normal.

MoonShadow

Re: Pale Moon UX feature request

Unread post by MoonShadow » 2012-06-11, 20:01

@Micster: I ditched the tab close button before I realized it could be as useful as you point out. Nonetheless, I think I like the luxury of a few more character positions on the tab title. Doggone thing was too tiny and made me squint to see it anyway. I run a very dark blue theme (like my avatar background) but the close button's "X" target doesn't change contrast to match the font I chose for the tab's label. Thus the label is white or yellow on a nearly black background but the close target remains a solid black. Light characters on a darker background is easier on my eyes, so I'm not sorry to see it go. Me brain lays down pathways and I have to retrain meself to take another path. Thanks once more for the tips.

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