pm 33.0.1 Slower than before

[andyprough]

random websites take time to render but it's probably due to my connection, cause the principle now is that actions don't take an abnormal time to proceed now with palemoon.

You may want to call your internet provider. Some of them have been offering free upgrades of the modems if you have been using one of theirs. It can make a big difference for connections. For example, Spectrum internet in the US allows you to switch to a newer one.

[xissuesx]

Hi athenian,

Regardless of my issue with my graphic card that involved an even slower & weirder difficulties in reactivity,
& because Piotr made me think twice, just like you, i've made video tests, and i can confirm that even with
my graphic card drivers stable now, Pm 33.0.1 is majorly slower than 32.5.0.

So i'll go back to 32.5.0 & try new updates over time to see if things got better or not, because it slows down
my activity with the browser.

Some videos added.. i forgot to add the mouse in the video capture but i don't have the force to reinstall setups
& recreate the videos again. But you still can guess at times when i open about palemoon
or how fast windows open from a tab to another..

Pm 32.5.0.mp4

Pm 32.5.0 middle click.mp4

Pm 32.5.1 first 2 actions - starting to slow down.MP4

Pm 32.5.2 slower to load gmail better to load about palemoon but not quicker than 32.5.0.mp4

Pm 33.0.1.mp4

Pm 33.0.1 second take slower with middle click slower to render.mp4

so if u believe finding another browser's my best option, instead of using a previous release & quit updating, it's naturally wrong.

I'm not exactly wrong, it's just I would prioritize security, web compatibility, and support over perceived rendering speed of a smaller number of sites... we clearly have different priorities, then.

Well, anyway, if you are determined to find a "last good version" of Pale Moon and stop updating, would you mind at least telling us which version it is that you think is so much "faster"? Is it in the 32.x series, or 31.x series, etc? There are multiple version numbers that can get bumped with each release, so I really don't know what you mean when you say 3 or 4 versions ago. Do you mean 3 or 4 releases ago, which would be somewhere in the 32.x series, or do you mean that 3 or 4 major versions ago, which would be 29.x/28.x from several years back?

Also, how will you know if we fix the issue if you stop trying newer versions of Pale Moon altogether? For all you know, we might fix it a year or two from now while touching something unrelated, and then you would still be stuck on an old version because you assume it's still broken. Since we can't even reproduce the issue, and are not clear on what the cause is, we also won't know to tell you when or if it's fixed either...

[Moonchild]

Personally, I find the exact opposite to be true. With various updates to code and libs, v33 is actually noticeably faster to load and process websites, so there really isn't some one-way and objective slowdown with our changes. It may simply not work as well with your specific setup, which may be related to many factors. Especially considering a reinstall of the same video driver solved a major issue, it's very well possible that other parts of your OS aren't as stable as they could be, leading to slowdowns.
You may also want to test if your add-ons might be an issue. Abandoned ones may break with any update and cause a negative impact.

Of note, "Registry cleaners" are very strongly discouraged in current versions of Windows as they almost without fail clean too much because they do not do a deep enough analysis of what are actually orphan keys/values. These tools worked a treat in Windows 95/98, but are really a thing from the past that you should not be using to blanket "clean" anything.

[athenian200]

So i'll go back to 32.5.0 & try new updates over time to see if things got better or not, because it slows down
my activity with the browser.

Some videos added.. i forgot to add the mouse in the video capture but i don't have the force to reinstall setups
& recreate the videos again. But you still can guess at times when i open about palemoon
or how fast windows open from a tab to another..

Pm 32.5.0.mp4
Pm 32.5.0 middle click.mp4

Pm 32.5.1 first 2 actions - starting to slow down.MP4

Pm 32.5.2 slower to load gmail better to load about palemoon but not quicker than 32.5.0.mp4

Pm 33.0.1.mp4
Pm 33.0.1 second take slower with middle click slower to render.mp4

I really appreciate you making the videos so we can visualize the speed difference. So, 32.5.0 was the last one that was fast, and 32.5.1 was slower for you? That does at least give a starting point so I can try and see if anything changed that might have caused that... that is admittedly kind of surprising, because I don't recall any major changes that could explain a performance difference here. I'll just look back through the changelogs and see if anything jumps out... it's pretty hard to track down the cause of stuff like that, but it is nice to have a hard number on what the last version without the issue was at least. Thanks for sharing.

From what I can tell looking at your videos, to my eyes the performance difference between the 32.5.x versions is very slight, but the slowdown with PM 33 is very, very noticable. Since you are mentioning middle click being slower, I'm wondering if this could be related to the whole "auxclick" thing? I may try to play around with this and see if there are any noticable performance regressions here...

[Moonchild]

Ah.. if it's that far back, that changeset specifically added some additional validation for WebGL. It's quite possible that your old driver's validation really screws up and causes big slow-downs (that would be a driver bug).

See if flipping the pref webgl.gl_khr_no_validation (to true) and restarting the browser improves performance for you?

[Moonchild]

Since you are mentioning middle click being slower, I'm wondering if this could be related to the whole "auxclick" thing?

This would fall in the realm of checking add-ons, most likely. if some of them expect click event dispatches that no longer happen, then they may cause issues

[xissuesx]

Athenian,

"to my eyes the performance difference between the 32.5.x versions is very slight, but the slowdown with PM 33 is very, very noticeable. "

Exactly, i confirm it.


"Since you are mentioning middle click being slower, I'm wondering if this could be related to the whole "auxclick" thing? I may try to play around with this and see if there are any noticable performance regressions here..."

don't forget not only middle click is affected.. but clicking in menus like "about palemoon" & the delay in reactivity..
& switching from a tab to another, from 32.5.0 to 33.0.1

I added 4 videos with the mouse.. when i move the mouse down, it's one of my straight forward way to tell you "i clicked"..

pm 33.0.1.mp4

pm 33.0.1 other take.mp4

pm 32.5.0.mp4

pm 32.5.0 other take.mp4

Moonchild,

Changing webgl.gl_khr_no_validation to true didn't affect the found sluggishness in pm 33.0.1, in any way.
& to me, there's no issue found in my actual video driver, i don't see frames of gui/bitmap disappearing anymore.
& a significant change was seen with that laptop company's update, after uninstalling & reinstalling.

[xissuesx]

& don't forget this to not put aside possible causes:
Pm 32.5.1 first 2 actions - starting to slow down
Pm 32.5.2 slower to load gmail better to load about palemoon

[xissuesx]

Since i realized right clicking was also slow in V32.5.0 after reading
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30946
which is confirmed here too.

I decided to make wider range tests, & i've installed tones of old PM versions
I decided to move back to those previous versions till finding back that stability..

& i've realized that 2 Pm versions are faster for menu & deskbar manipulation of Pm:

Pale Moon V32.4.0.1 < fluidity in the speed of reaction when i click on menus, or from a window to another on the deskar's Restituted.
right clicking "ameliorated" (while using menu wizard addon) Ps: waiting that all tabs have been fully loaded < the best version for that,
while more recent versions will slow down right click & "menu wizard" in an absurd way.
https://pale-moon.en.uptodown.com/windows/download/107567832

Pale Moon V32.1.0 < even faster fluidity in the speed of reaction when i click on menus, or from a window to another on the deskbar's Restituted.
But right clicking is still better in PM V32.4.0.1

I've also made a step by step addon removal & reupdate to find the culprit, after saving my profile on the desktop. >>

I find sad the fact that noone has ever decided to maintain a forked version of menu wizard for Pm,
since it's last version, 7 years ago .. . which has made right click more & more sluggy over time .. .

Many people will find ok to ignore menu wizard in their setup, but i'm not the kind to have
tones of menu or submenu infos which slows my perception of an overall set of functions
& keeps offering me tones of functions i'd never use or even doubled in a different syntax
or synonym by randomly required addons..

I hope a fix will offer back the menu wizard acceptable fluidity of PM32.4.0.1
& the fluidity in menus & deskbar icons from 32.1.0, but i doubt all will go well
in future updates, cause it's not always a specific update that interacts with menu wizard,
but the fact that required addons heavy Pm overtime. But obviously, one update is affecting
menu wizard for those coming after Pm V32.4.0.1..

I really appreciate you making the videos so we can visualize the speed difference. So, 32.5.0 was the last one that was fast, and 32.5.1 was slower for you? That does at least give a starting point so I can try and see if anything changed that might have caused that... that is admittedly kind of surprising, because I don't recall any major changes that could explain a performance difference here. I'll just look back through the changelogs and see if anything jumps out... it's pretty hard to track down the cause of stuff like that, but it is nice to have a hard number on what the last version without the issue was at least. Thanks for sharing.

From what I can tell looking at your videos, to my eyes the performance difference between the 32.5.x versions is very slight, but the slowdown with PM 33 is very, very noticeable. Since you are mentioning middle click being slower, I'm wondering if this could be related to the whole "auxclick" thing? I may try to play around with this and see if there are any noticeable performance regressions here...

[Moonchild]

So, the issue is the use of the Menu Wizard extension then, if I understand your post correctly?

It may indeed have to do with our changes to click handling in that case, which would mean the extension needs to be updated to prevent slowness.

Moving this topic to Add-ons.

[xissuesx]

Yes moonchild,

& menu clicking & icons on deskbar, & it goes together with opening new windows.. it's quicker in 32.4.0.1. < can't tell why..

I can only pray someone keeps forking a pale moon follow up of the latest "Menu wizard 5.11"
that was created by its author, a year after the start of webextensions, for seamonkey & palemoon .. . >>
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/seamonkey/addon/s3menu-wizard/

<!-- Pale Moon -->
<em:targetApplication>
<Description>
<em:id>{8de7fcbb-c55c-4fbe-bfc5-fc555c87dbc4}</em:id>
<em:minVersion>24.0</em:minVersion>
<em:maxVersion>29.*</em:maxVersion>

[Moonchild]

If it's an S3 extension there's little chance of it being picked up by anyone (including the original publisher). Just a reality check.

[Lootyhoof]

Fun fact: back when I was involved in the Add-ons Team I actually approached Oleksander (S3 dev) about getting his add-ons on our site. He was keen at the time, however I had just one demand: remove the rampant use of telemetry in all his add-ons. He soon stopped responding to me after that.

I wouldn't recommend using any of his add-ons.

[xissuesx]

if you asked partnership, lootyhoof, i'm not surprised about his reaction, as he was clearly pissed off when the firefox team abandoned classic addons
to the profit of webextensions & told me & others that he was fed up & not willing to keep coding for people that get rid of his work like they did.
He's lost the necessary patience to rebuild it. if you can do it yourself that would be great lootyhoof, otherwise, it forces me to remain at 32.4.01
& never update again ((

[xissuesx]

And if it's too hard to update it, maybe you could try to build one from scrach looty ?
In firefox 64 the firefox team added an option to hide references from menus .. . you could
use it in a new addon, & add what's missing:
-adding
-renaming
-moving

If it doesn't take computer knowledge, i would have removed that telemetry for you,
cause it's an essential addon for me lootyhoof

[Lootyhoof]

Sorry, but I have no intention of touching those.

[xissuesx]

no surprise.

[athenian200]

Wait, so is it just the add-on that's slower? Does that mean that Pale Moon without the add-on you mentioned works as fast as ever, or is there also an issue where the UI is slower in general that's separate from this?

[Moonchild]

Wait, so is it just the add-on that's slower?

Far as I can tell the add-on slows down the GUI.

[xissuesx]

@moonchild & athenian, confirmed.

& sadly there's no alternative to menu wizzard & noone seems to want to update it ((

1) At the left, a right click on Pm33.0.1 without menu wizard & fluidity in all sections returned.
2) & at the left, a right click on Pm with menu wizard & sluggishness found moving from deskbar icon to another, menu to another & right clicking

Sshot.png

The plus of the addon:
-not looking like a pot of garbage full of infos to sort, addons options being ordered, not long & briefly renamed
-this is just an example, cause there are many other right clicks properly ordered & renamed & many unneeded functions made invisible,
even one entire menu is made invisible on the menubar.

The actual downside for not being updated:
Slow..

it'd be suuuuch a shame to toss that awesome addon that gives pale moon cleaner cosmetics.