uBlockOrigin disable fixes a problem that whitelisting site will not -- why?

[Pallid Planetoid]

Critical Addendum: In regards to Citibank website in conjunction with uBlockOrigin on Pale Moon 28.0.0b3....

I'm confused why it is that I have to disable the uBlockOrigin extension to fix a problem that white-listing the website will not fix.

To clarify -- I get the following when the Citibank website log-in times-out:

citibank problem with uBlock.png (23.1 KiB) Viewed 1404 times

as of when the log-in time-out occurs on the Citibank website this "about:blank" separate browser window is rendered in reduced size and mostly off the desktop as seen in this screen-shot (which is annoying because I always need to maximize and close the browser window).

The only thing that fixes this problem is to entirely disable the uBlockOrigin extension.

I would assume that white-listing the Citibank website on uBlockOrigin would essentially ignore all uBlockOrigin filters and as such be essentially the equivalent of disabling the extension in regards to the Citibank website. So why don't I get the same result from white-listing Citibank as I get as a result of disabling the extension?

To clarify -- what I find is the following:
1) Disabling the extension avoids the problem (as seen in the screen-shot)
2) White-listing the Citibank website fails to avoid the problem.

Questions:
1) Why is this the case?
... Considering I have to disable the uBlockOrigin extension to fix the Citibank problem....
2) How can I still continue to use uBlockOrigin (not need to disable the extension) and at the same time fix this log-in time-out issue with Citibank?

Edit: as suggested -- I have submitted this forum URL topic link to Gorhill on Github.

[Moonchild]

You should ask Gorhill.

[Pallid Planetoid]

I have submitted a link to this topic on the uBlockOrigin github site.

In the meantime -- I am hopeful someone can confirm this same situation with Citibank (they will have to have a bank account to log-in and be using uBlockOrigin) -- the Pale Moon version may not be that important because if it occurs with the beta release of Pale Moon it may also occur on a stable release of Pale Moon as well.

Edit: just received multiple (4) replies from github for various reasons in regards to posting issue convention requirements of which the requirements are not simply applicable and as a result the issue has been closed (I personally consider the required conventions to post on github irrelevant in this specific situation and as such places an undue and unnecessary burden on the user posting the issue imho. Such as one requirement among many most of which I responded to comes to mind which is to rule out filter issues which of course would irrelevant if a website is white-listed hence not applicable in my case.). I do not see any point in following up so if support staff on this forum would prefer to remove this topic then I'll simply drop the entire issue and most likely take the option to disable uBlockOrigin until which time I find the issue has been resolved by occasionally testing for this problem at my convenience.

Testing for this issue takes up considerable time considering that a time-out can take up 10+ minutes alone and of course there are a great many of factors to test -- so with that in mind my time is worth something as well and if I can't get answers from the Github site for uBlockOrigin by referencing the detailed information in this topic then I'd rather opt to drop the topic (my personal opinion on this is -- if support for uBlockOrigin can't find the time to take the extra step to make exceptions in addressing issues attributed to this extension then it would appear that issues of this type are not considered important enough to uBlockOrigin support and with that in mind it occurs to me why in that case should I be concerned about taking more of my valuable time on the issue as well.)

Note: I have disabled ALL FILTERS on UblockOrigin and still get the same issue with Citibank time-outs of their website on Pale Moon 28.0.03b so the only way to avoid this remains disabling the add-on. (I suppose the fact that there will necessarily be a limited number of Citibank users that are also using uBlockOrigin in Pale Moon 28 places less significance on the problem -- of course that is assuming that anyone else can actually confirm the problem beyond what I've experienced.)

[doofy]

I wonder if uB0 is reacting badly with another extension.

I suggest disabling all other extensions, restart browser, whitelist site (by clicking big blue power button), see if problem persists.

[Pallid Planetoid]

I wonder if uB0 is reacting badly with another extension.

I suggest disabling all other extensions, restart browser, whitelist site (by clicking big blue power button), see if problem persists.

Thanks for the feedback -- I've done so and with all 41 of my other add-ons disabled (only using uBO)

I waited the obligatory 10 minutes for the Citibank session time-out to display in the tab:

and to my surprise happily the problem did not occur.

Now to starting up add-ons to determine where the conflict exists .... deciding to enable ABPrime first (since it occurs to me to be a "prime" suspect [pun intended ] because the two add-ons do similar things and lo-and-behold the problem occurs .... I had disabled ABPrime previously but the problem persisted so I'm not sure if there might be another add-on issue as well --- but for now I'll look into the two add-ons (uBO and ABP) to see if I can determine a way to avoid the Citibank time-out problem and still use both add-ons (I prefer ABPrime for the "Disable Malware" and "Easy Privacy" filters because unlike other blocker extensions ABPrime loads the filters prior to when web pages get loaded so I feel I have improved security for this reason).

Thanks for the suggestion -- I would not have thought of it because I had already disabled both blockers (uBO and ABP) previously (perhaps at different times) and for some reason the issue persisted...

I'll report back with any progress....

.... Oh and I would like to apologize for upsetting the uBO support staff to the extent that I apparently did... I just thought in my humble opinion that some of the customary requirements to open an issue, while I'm certain helpful in most cases, may not be as applicable in all circumstances hence exceptions may arguably be warranted (I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time)... I would add perhaps the results I got after posting the issue when I've been working off-and-on with this Citibank problem for several days spending many many hours and not only loosing sleep over it but also depriving me the time for other important things I need to get to as well had caused me to react in a more curt manner than I should have and for that I extend any apologies for any animus I may have brought about.

[Pallid Planetoid]

Hmmm, interestingly -- I did another log-in (without doing anything else with any extensions yet) to simply verify that getting the problem again with ABPrime enabled was not a fluke -- and perhaps fluke it was --- because the second time I logged into Citibank the problem did NOT occur with just uBO and ABP enabled like it did the first time.

... tried a third test and once again NO problem (so since the first time the problem has not occurred again).

... as I had previously said -- I had disabled ABPrime in the past but the problem persisted at that time -- it appears I've got an issue that is rather difficult to consistently reproduce each and every time under the same circumstances and therefore unfortunately not at all an easy thing to deal with uniformly....

I'll start enabling more add-ons a couple at a time to see if at any point the problem returns (which will be incredibly time consuming which will require a minimum of 20 individual tests taking 10+ minutes each and likely requiring more time since sometimes the time-out never gets triggered and as a result I have to eventually click on something in the Citibank page to initiate the time-out).... What worries me is I'll reach a point after enabling a couple of add-ons at time and then back out of those two add-ons to determine the responsible add-on and I'll then inexplicably continue to get the problem regardless....

[Tomaso]

Use uBO's logger, to see what gets blocked.
I'm guessing a third party script.

Not using Citibank myself, but when looking into uBO's logger, I see that the following script is whitelisted by the 'EasyPrivacy' filter (probably for a good reason):

Code: Select all

https://mpsnare.iesnare.com/snare.js

When I disable 'EasyPrivacy', the very same script gets blocked by 'Dan Pollocks hosts file' and the 'hpHosts Ad and tracking servers' filter.

If you aren't already using the 'EasyPrivacy' filter, then try enabling it.
..or simply add this rule to uBO's 'My filters' list:

Code: Select all

@@||mpsnare.iesnare.com/snare.js$domain=citi.com|citibank.com

Not sure if this will solve your problem, but it would be a good place to start.

[Pallid Planetoid]

Thanks for the feedbak...

I do and always have used "Easy Privacy" and as mentioned use it in ABP because I like the idea that the filter gets loaded prior to when the web-page gets loaded (to provide extra security).

I have also used uBO's logger as well and had found the following site requests to mention a few:
citibank.com
paper.citi.com
steps.citi.com
va.v.liveperson.net

The last two of which profusely repeated numerous times if I recall (especially the last one).

And the last one "va.v.liveperson.net" more specifically "https://va.v.liveperson.net/api/js" would regularly repeat every 10 seconds - because of this I blocked "liveperson.net" in NoScript. And what was even more interesting the last two if I recall or at least the last one would continue on even after the website timed-out and was ostensibly inactive which I found very odd....

So far besides uBO, I've enabled 8 more add-ons and still no problem has occurred yet.... 32 to go... wouldn't it be odd if the problem doesn't occur again -- well maybe not odd for my life. (my life has been notoriously replete with oddities )

[Tomaso]

Ah, so you're using NoScript in combination with uBO?
That might explain things.

Also, you're using 41 add-ons!?
Don't you think that's a bit excessive?
If Citibank is the only place that gives you trouble over this, you should count yourself lucky, IMO. :)

[Pallid Planetoid]

NS was the third add-on I enabled -- no problem.... it was one of the first I disabled when testing problem to see if doing so would resolve the problem but problem persisted at the time -- so NS does not seem to be involved. Personally I find that NS fixes more sites that it causes problems (in fact I'm not aware of any sites NS causes problems with in my case -- perhaps I'm lucky -- but frankly never thought of my self as such )

Off-topic:
The great majority of my add-ons are passive and either impact minimally or do nothing at all unless actively I use them to perform their purpose i.e.:
Advanced Night Mode
Ant Video Downloader
Copy Plain Text 2
Cookie Keeper
Form History Control
Get Mail Plus
Google Translator
Pale Moon Tester
Custom New Tab
Dismiss The Overlay
FEBE
Expose Noisy Tabs
Greedy Cache
HTML Media Tuner
Location Bar Enhancer
Open With
Pale Moon Commander
Places Maintenance
Places Cleaner
Search Load Options
Speed Dial
Speed Start
Splashed
Stylish
Tab Set Saver
Thin Tabs
Ublock Origin Updater
Youtube Lazy Load
Element Hiding Helper (works with uBO)
Forecast for Pale Moon
Zoom Page

These 31 add-ons for the most part generally all perform passively and do not block or cause interference per say.

Not nearly the same as say these other 6 I use:
NoScript
ABPrime (used for only "Easy Privacy" and "Disable Malware")
uBO
Cookies Exterminator
Disconnet
Decentraleyes

So it's not like I have a lot of intensive blocking add-ons that might cause issues.... (at least the way I see it)

Hmmm, so my bad --- that's not 41, instead apparently 37 instead (FWIW ).

[doofy]

Recommendation(s):

1. accept current behaviour
2. autorefresh tab after 9 mins
3. close tab after 9 mins.

Pick one.

There is a reason MC wrote his stickied post above about "NS and our support". But he doesn't go far enough. IME (several years), the only way to ever rule NS out of any equation is with a fresh profile.

And there is a reason GitHub asks you to tick 3 boxes as you log your issue:

1. uBlock Origin is the only extension
2. uBlock Origin with default lists/settings
3. using a new, unmodified browser profile

That doesn't just apply to uB0 - it applies to any extension. Yet having established that an extension works perfectly in a vanilla profile, there is still no saying how it will behave in a crowded environment of 30+ extensions. And that applies in spades to "security/privacy" extensions.

And you routinely run 3 blockers on a banking site. On banking sites, and other overly complex sites, I only ever run in a nearly vanilla profile - certainly not one that I have to fight blockers to get basic functionality.

[Pallid Planetoid]

Progress report: With only 8 remaining extensions to be enabled to test I've finally had the Citibank time-out reoccur.... it was presumably one of five extension that I have enabled that caused the issue.

The five extensions (of which none I would have expected to cause this problem) enabled were the following (with what I consider the most likely to least likely to be causing the problem among these five extensions):
1) Forecast for Pale Moon (not likely)
2) Greedy Cache (most likely among the five)
3) HTML Media Tuner (not likely)
4) Open With (not likely)
5) Pale Moon Commander (least likely)

Disabled 2 & 3 first --- problem persisted - neither are the problem presumably
Disabled 1 & 4 next --- problem persisted - neither are the problem presumably
Disabled 5 (the least likely to cause the issue imo) --- problem occurred!! (I left last what I considered the least likely to cause the problem)

.... I'm skeptical that the "Pale Moon Commander" extension is exclusively the problem -- so this warrants further testing....

After enabling all other extensions (except for "Pale Moon Commander") including the above as well as the remaining 8 that I was getting to and I've found that another extension also apparently impacts the Citibank problem that being the "Stylish" extension.

I will repeat a combination of various tests several times to verify results involving these two extensions (Pale Moon Commander and Stylish) and report back.

[Tomaso]

Also, make sure to empty your cache between each test.

[Pallid Planetoid]

Also, make sure to empty your cache between each test.

Hmmm, that would have been an excellent idea -- but too late as I'm not incined to repeat the tests again -- that could account for the moderate amount of inconsistencies I found however. That said, not even considering the several previous days spent on this I've spent 10 hours on this just today and that's enough for me.

I wonder if uB0 is reacting badly with another extension.

I suggest disabling all other extensions, restart browser, whitelist site (by clicking big blue power button), see if problem persists.

Okay -- Here are my surprising results:

First it has been established that disabling uBO fixes the problem when surprisingly enough a white-list of the website doesn't help (as referenced in the topic subject title).

Now to the question of a possible conflict of extensions brought up by doofy thankfully.... that is if it's possible that "uBO is reacting badly with another extension" which is the question at hand.

With Stylish disabled:
Running 3 tests with Pale Moon Commander disabled -- result: the problem does NOT occur at any time.
Running 3 tests with Pale Moon Commander enabled -- result: the problem DOES occur every time.

Conclusion based on above results:
Both results suggests that Pale Moon Commander is at least in part a contributing factor to the problem.

With Pale Moon Commander disabled:
Running 3 tests with Stylish disabled -- result: the first and third tests the problem DID occur but the second test the problem does NOT occur.
Running 3 tests with Stylish enabled -- result: the problem DOES occur every time.

Conclusion based on above results:
The top result is somewhat confounding that would suggest there maybe another unknown contributing factor.
The bottom result suggests Stylish is at least a part of the problem.

For the sake of time -- I'm assuming with both Pale Moon Commander and Styles enabled the problem will occur -- I tested this by chance one time when all extension were enabled in which this was the result.

(Note: I have five styles 1) for highlighting the browsers active tab, 2) to allow copying the ABE error banner when an ABE error occurs 3) Start.me start-page modifications 4) to modify a theme I am not even using 5) to prevent text shadowing in the PM find bar -- all 5 styles of which would NOT appear to have any impact on the citibank website.

Conclusion:
1) Disabling uBO fixes the problem totally independent of any other extensions (with all other extensions enabled - including the two extensions referenced above that appear to be involved).
2) Disabling Pale Moon Commander with Stylish not involved fixes the problem with uBO enabled (a problem that does occur if Pale Moon Commander is enabled).
3) Stylish will for whatever reason appears to impact the problem in some limited ways.
4) ALL extensions other than uBO, Pale Moon Commander and Stylish appear at the very minimum to be significantly NOT involved and arguably totally independent of the problem.

I've spent way too long on this so after all this time I have to say that I tend to agree with:

Recommendation(s):

1. accept current behaviour
2. autorefresh tab after 9 mins
3. close tab after 9 mins.

Pick one.

[Moonchild]

Enabling or disabling Pale Moon Commander should have 0 impact on anything else since all it ever does is provide a UI to preferences. It doesn't add any listeners/events/etc. as it's a very simple UI mapper to existing functionality. It doesn't touch page content, ever.
What you're seeing there must be an intermittent error, perhaps timing related, in a different extension.

[LimboSlam]

It looks like your issue on GitHub is invalid due to incomplete information, and a slight conflict of hurt feelings with gorhill and uBlock-user based off your actions on this forum.

Maybe you should start there, start within the logger..?

[Pallid Planetoid]

Enabling or disabling Pale Moon Commander should have 0 impact on anything else since all it ever does is provide a UI to preferences. It doesn't add any listeners/events/etc. as it's a very simple UI mapper to existing functionality. It doesn't touch page content, ever.
What you're seeing there must be an intermittent error, perhaps timing related, in a different extension.

Makes absolute sense -- which is why I expressed my dismay and skepticism that it could remotely have anything to do with PMC for the very reasons you've referenced that is that PMC is simply a UI to prefs and nothing more. The problem of course is that at that stage of the testing I had not had any Citibank problems after previously enabling 29 other add-ons at which time after enabling another 5 add-ons with PMC as one of them PMC after 3 tests with PMC enabled and another 3 tests with PMC disabled -- the problem occurred all 3 times only with PMC enabled. But again the obvious problem is there are 33 other add-ons that are enabled by then when I reached this point.

So I'm testing this to confirm your point.....

I've disabled ALL MY ADD-ONS leaving ONLY the PMC add-on enabled.

Test ONE - Interestingly at the time the Citibank website timed-out I was fortuitously able to momentarily observe the small empty new PM window partially display in the lower-right corner but then it closed itself (this makes me think that this window may get produced for each time-out in all cases and possibly the difference is that under the right circumstances it will close as opposed to when it does not close which is when I notice the problem since I have to move the window to get the the control buttons and then close the window.

I'm now watching intently to see if I am able to observe the same thing.... (not easy because the time-out can vary 10+ minutes and sometimes the page never times-out necessitating me to do something with the website that then produces the time-out that would presumably never occur). I recall sometimes observing this occur during all the other tests -- the blank new PM window will display momentarily in the bottom-right corner and then if it remains will end up in the background (behind the browser however this time it did not remain hence the PM window closed).

Test TWO - The time-out never did occur after waiting 20 minutes I did something on the site (clicked on link) to initiate the time-out that would not occur. Nothing observed but then this is a different circumstance since I had to "manually" implement the time-out. It's a different outcome also when ever the time-out does not occur on its own because I do not get the "time-out" message in the tab so not a good test.

The timeout failed to occur on third test -- I'm going to give up -- too time consuming....

I'm just going to concentrate on uBO with all add-ons disabled for a while to see if there is any pattern involving the Citibank issue and then be done with it....

Oh -- I meant to include my conclusions on Citibank: I think perhaps this new PM window gets created every time a "timeout" does actually occur that is generated by the website (not the ones I have to intervene whenever a time-out fails to occur) and the difference may be that the new PM window will close if not interfered with in some way which in that case it basically goes unnoticed. However in the event the new PM window remains then of course it is noticed and the reason it does not close is perhaps due to some interference of some kind that may have to do with add-ons -- who knows.... Also who knows if this is intentional by Citibank -- I tend to think not and is a residual issue that the website is creating but is typically not something that will raise any flags since the new browser window ends up closing quick enough to typically not be noticed. In my case with all add-ons enabled the new PM window will not get closed....