Want to talk about NoScript? Post here. Topic is solved

General discussion, compatibility and contributed extensions.

Moderators: satrow, FranklinDM, Lootyhoof

User avatar
Pale Moon Rising
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 3288
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 16:59
Location: Los Angeles CA USA

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Pale Moon Rising » Sat, 12 May 2018, 21:25

I presume you mean my post at the end of the last page.... ;)

Yea, I don't know why Pale Moon couldn't have just left it at this (warning by Moonchild): Important: NoScript users and our support which would have sufficed and avoided taking it a step further creating all of this unnecessary animosity toward Pale Moon such as: [Pale Moon] PM dissing NoScript? and this Pale Moon] Stability Issue w/ NoScript and this Pale Moon]All new Palemoon 27.9.1 is out (stardate: 20180507) and on and on everywhere you look (besides all of the negative reactions on the Pale Moon boards)....

.... like what was said in this NoScript board topic: Are Pale Moon users out of luck?
barbaz wrote:I notice they didn't say what specifically the security/stability issues are, nor why the Pale Moon folks couldn't just direct NoScript issues to this forum. And it seems no one on the Pale Moon forum thought to even ask.

http://blocklist.palemoon.org/info/?id=pm112
Why not simply provide the initial warning (linked above - top link and leave it at that) and furthermore simply redirect users with NS problems to the NoScript board -- where you can see there are numerous (9) specific topic threads dedicated to NoScript issues.... Was it really necessary to come off so strong as illustrated in the Pale Moon link provided in this reply above? Clearly a significant over reaction by Pale Moon support titillating what you would in all fairness expect in my opinion -- an over reaction by their own Pale Moon browser users and for that matter all users in the internet community in general.

Not at all a smart way to retain their current user base and more importantly perhaps not at all a recommended way to win over more users to the Pale Moon browser. It's important to consider the impact of what decisions like this will be toward what really matters -- living up to the principles of Pale Moon as far as providing a browser that offers the most choice and at the same time keep browsing safe of which in this specific case regarding this add-on there is not any real security risk of any kind but rather the impetus behind all of this was that the add-on was a "bother" more than anything.

.... well then -- just redirect the "bother" to the NoScript board (linked above in RED ;)) ---- problem solved! :thumbup:

ADDENDUM: What I've attempted to do is offer what I personally consider constructive suggestions as far as doing things a little different that would include some degree of focus on avoiding conflict with otherwise loyal Pale Moon users regardless of how small those number of users might actually be. I would argue an approach that certain numbers of Pale Moon users are perhaps expendable or do not need to be taken seriously is misguided and does nothing more than promote unnecessary acrimony in my humble opinion. If I'm wrong on this -- well I've been wrong many times before over my life-time -- but if there is a modicum of good sense in what I say then I contend a preferred path would be to minimally consider what I've had to say as opposed to taking what I say as nothing other than antagonistic. My intentions have nothing to do with promoting rancor but rather my intentions have everything to do with what I personally feel is the best approach to take for the benefit of Pale Moon in a positive way. For those who presume I have inimical intentions -- ask yourself -- what would be the point? Clearly as a person who chose to become a loyal Pale Moon user and who appreciates very much what Pale Moon has to offer, as so many others who contribute to this board I'm certain feel as well, it only makes sense that my intentions are only to be fully supportive of Pale Moon as opposed to assuming my intentions to be in some way adversarial. Just taking a moment to think about it -- why would I spend so much of my personal time on this board if my intentions were not intended to be supportive and want what is best for Pale Moon? And I would add that it clearly makes equal sense that Pale Moon support has the best of intentions as well of which I fully recognize. So we have a difference of opinion which as we know will very often happen to all who have the best of intentions. So with the understanding that all sides of the spectrum of opinion on this topic would be looking from the perspective of what is an honest appraisal of what is best for Pale Moon -- I find it very odd that my opinions are met with such rancor and open hostility from some Pale Moon staff when it would seem to me I have not at all expressed an equivalent sense of rancor or hostility in the other direction but rather intended only to respectfully suggest what might have been in my opinion a better alternate approach to the issue. I've taken some time to consider all sides and can say that while it seems some may take things a little too personal (which is frankly not the first time) I will still happily remain dedicated to Pale Moon and as such continue to remain a loyal and appreciative user which includes always putting in a plug for Pale Moon at every opportunity. And as a loyal Pale Moon user I will say that I DO care for all other loyal users regardless of differences of opinions and at the same time will remain hopeful that Pale Moon maintains its focus on providing users with full array of choices as far as what each may want in a browser which I think we can all agree is critical to the success of Pale Moon as reflected by what all of us Pale Moon users have been drawn to Pale Moon in the first place.... But I have say with all candor that some of the rhetoric I've seen from Pale Moon including both in this topic and privately does unfortunately leave somewhat of a bad taste behind and as such naturally dampens to some extent former enthusiasm toward the support of Pale Moon I've previously had which I hope in time can eventually be ameliorated. :wave:
Last edited by Pale Moon Rising on Sun, 13 May 2018, 03:22, edited 2 times in total.
Current Pale Moon(x86) Release | WIN7(64-bit) | I3 CPU, 2.53 GHz, 4G RAM

Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers

Knowing Pale Moon is indisputably #1 is defined by knowing the totality of browsers. - Pale Moon Rising

User avatar
Pale Moon Rising
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 3288
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 16:59
Location: Los Angeles CA USA

Re: I'm overreacting and leaving because NoScript.

Unread postby Pale Moon Rising » Sat, 12 May 2018, 21:36

Isengrim wrote:
craftsman wrote:In FireFox the Noscript works fine! :thumbup:

NoScript can still be installed and run in Pale Moon. Nothing has changed in that regard.

I was also under the impression that ClearClick protection and ABE doesn't yet work in NoScript 10.x, but I could be wrong.
NoScript 10.x is not compatible with Pale Moon! The "Classic" version of NoScript must be used of which the most current download is NoScript "Classic" (5.1.8.5). ;) ...in which all of the usual security functions work. :thumbup:
Last edited by Pale Moon Rising on Sat, 12 May 2018, 21:38, edited 1 time in total.
Current Pale Moon(x86) Release | WIN7(64-bit) | I3 CPU, 2.53 GHz, 4G RAM

Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers

Knowing Pale Moon is indisputably #1 is defined by knowing the totality of browsers. - Pale Moon Rising

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22159
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Moonchild » Sat, 12 May 2018, 21:43

rlcoone wrote:That is a very good analysis.

With only one snag: it's totally incorrect and serves only to dominate this thread with pseudo-arguments that are convincing to people who do not have a deeper knowledge of what is going on.

The issue is not improper use of the extension. In that case we may as well block everything because there is no fix for PEBCAK.

Want to talk about overreactions, PMR? Look at your own rants resulting from a warning level blocklist entry that was made after deliberation and months of patience. But enough is enough -- and we will not stand idly by while people install it, run inevitably into issues, and then come to who? That's right, us. Now, people are clearly and unequivocally warned about the add-on being problematic; by its nature (because the average user will run into issues) as well as technical implementations in the extension itself causing issues including but not limited to broken websites, polluted sticky cache entries, and apparently persistent issues even when the extension's functionality is supposed to be disabled.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

User avatar
helloimustbegoing
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu, 28 Jun 2012, 01:20

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby helloimustbegoing » Sat, 12 May 2018, 21:50

The timing of all this I find a bit ironic. I had just stopped using NoScript two or three days before. About two weeks ago, I started having problems accessing my email account. They (my email of choice) started force feeding me its new version, and every time I tried to log in I'd get an error message. The only way I was able to view my email was to globally disable NoScript. Not even allowing all scripts fixed the problem. Even though I'm savvy enough to know it was not Pale Moon's fault (a lot of users would blame the browser) I can understand the reasoning behind Moonchild's decision on this. I remember one thread quite a while back, it went on forever before the "problem" became apparent (and unlike mine it wasn't really a problem to begin with, just NoScript doing what it does). On the other hand, I fear this will cost Pale Moon a significant amount of users, so from that perspective, IMHO this decision was a mistake.

What I'm doing now is using uBlock Origin to block all 3rd party scripts and frames. This still borks my email, but at least with uBo I can disable it (uBo) for this site only, and it works. Blocking only 3rd party scripts is good enough for me.
Last edited by helloimustbegoing on Sat, 12 May 2018, 22:03, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22159
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Moonchild » Sat, 12 May 2018, 22:01

You can all think it was a mistake to warn people about an extension that is known to cause problems and that it will cost us in terms of number of browser users.
That's fine, I'm not bothered by it.

Ask yourself though: Do you think I was not aware of the potential impact of this step before I took it? Why do you think did I go ahead and added this warning anyway?
Do you think there was nothing on the other side of the equal sign?...
What about the less vocal part of the users who see problems in Pale Moon with NoScript that they don't see in Firefox? Would they stay?...

[Morpheus:]You think that's air you're breathing now? Hmm.
Last edited by Moonchild on Sat, 12 May 2018, 22:05, edited 2 times in total.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

rlcoone
Moongazer
Moongazer
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed, 04 Oct 2017, 21:32

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby rlcoone » Sat, 12 May 2018, 22:24

It's not so much what was done as how it was done. I check in here at least a couple of times a day an look at the unread posts. I pick and choose the ones that look like they might interest me. A warning of what was to come might have cut the ruckus down a bit, letting those who follow the forum know they will see the box and depending on what you want to do with NoScript do this or do this. The box didn't bother me a bit, as a avid follower of this forum, not knowing it was coming did.

I don't think I missed such a topic, it would have drawn at least a few replies and I'd have seen it. If it does exist then I apologize.

User avatar
Isengrim
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 457
Joined: Tue, 08 Sep 2015, 22:54
Location: 127.0.0.1
Contact:

Re: I'm overreacting and leaving because NoScript.

Unread postby Isengrim » Sat, 12 May 2018, 22:36

Pale Moon Rising wrote:
Isengrim wrote:
craftsman wrote:In FireFox the Noscript works fine! :thumbup:

NoScript can still be installed and run in Pale Moon. Nothing has changed in that regard.

I was also under the impression that ClearClick protection and ABE doesn't yet work in NoScript 10.x, but I could be wrong.
NoScript 10.x is not compatible with Pale Moon! The "Classic" version of NoScript must be used of which the most current download is NoScript "Classic" (5.1.8.5). ;) ...in which all of the usual security functions work. :thumbup:

I'm aware. I was referring to the version that runs in Firefox, which is what craftsman was likely referring to.
Linux Mint 18.3 Cinnamon (64-bit)
Windows 7 (64-bit) (Sometimes)
Windows 10 (64-bit) (Sometimes)
We are our choices.

zapper
Hobby Astronomer
Hobby Astronomer
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon, 30 Apr 2018, 23:40

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby zapper » Sat, 12 May 2018, 23:39

Forum Staff wrote:Since people apparently don't feel satisfied about how the forum is run, we've decided to approach this differently.

All wild threads about NoScript have been merged into this one. If you want to post, argue, discuss, complain, or otherwise write anything about NoScript in Pale Moon, NoScript as a solution, NoScript vs. community input or NoScript's nature and its success/failure, workarounds, issues, the blocklist warning and support available or not available, then post in this thread. Also if you need help with NoScript installed in your browser and running into issues.

If it is in any way related to NoScript, this thread is the place to post it.

Do not create other topics about NoScript, please. Moderators would prefer to be spared the extra work of merging them in.


I have an idea, that is better than just disabling noscript. Add a built in noscript feature for the basilisk browser. But, make it disabled by default but available to those who tick it on in about:config. Just a thought.

It would be a lot of work though, but I think some people would be willing to donate for this feature. Just say the word.

nema32
New to the forum
New to the forum
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri, 11 May 2018, 21:54

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby nema32 » Sun, 13 May 2018, 00:53

I find myself now thinking about alternative browsers. Not because NoScript got a level 1 blocklist, it would take actual disabling and a lot more of it before I gave up a browser I'm basically happy with.

No, the problem is the reaction to legitimate criticism. It raises all kinds of red flags when you have to dig through several threads to discover the reason is the devs don't want to support the extension. Couple that with a lack of empathy toward users who have legitimate concerns about an extension they find essential. All they want is transparency and a basic understanding of their point of view. The reaction of the devs here, in my experience, is a red flag that things are not going to improve, but rather, get worse.

Will I switch right away? Of course not. It took years of similar behavior from Mozilla before I actually switched. The only difference is I am learned enough now to already be preparing.

User avatar
helloimustbegoing
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu, 28 Jun 2012, 01:20

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby helloimustbegoing » Sun, 13 May 2018, 01:25

nema32 wrote:
It raises all kinds of red flags when you have to dig through several threads to discover the reason is the devs don't want to support the extension.

Actually, "support" of the extension belongs to the developer of said extension, not the browser developers. If NoScript causes a problem, it (the problem) belongs to Giorgio Maone, not Moonchild.

Skaendo
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun, 28 Feb 2016, 21:58

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Skaendo » Sun, 13 May 2018, 03:00

helloimustbegoing wrote:Actually, "support" of the extension belongs to the developer of said extension, not the browser developers. If NoScript causes a problem, it (the problem) belongs to Giorgio Maone, not Moonchild.


I mean, i don't doubt that there might be a issue with NoScript itself, but I have been using it for years on Pale Moon, Firefox and Waterfox and never had a problem. IMO the issue is someone didn't RTFM.

User avatar
helloimustbegoing
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu, 28 Jun 2012, 01:20

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby helloimustbegoing » Sun, 13 May 2018, 03:04

I also have (had) been using it for years. Didn't have any problems with it until two weeks ago. Anyway, uBo can be configured to block scripts just the same as NoScript, so I don't really see much of a problem here.

Skaendo
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun, 28 Feb 2016, 21:58

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Skaendo » Sun, 13 May 2018, 03:08

helloimustbegoing wrote:I also have (had) been using it for years. Didn't have any problems with it until two weeks ago. Anyway, uBo can be configured to block scripts just the same as NoScript, so I don't really see much of a problem here.


Yea, but I don't like "uBo".
It doesn't work as good as Adblock {Latitude, Plus} or NoScript.

Kinpouge
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat, 25 Feb 2017, 09:05

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Kinpouge » Sun, 13 May 2018, 06:06

What add-on will be blacklisted next? RequestPolicy, as it also "breaks" many sites (almost all that use third party content, I suppose)? uMatrix? uBlock Origin?

Nightbird
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon, 18 Jul 2016, 21:12

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Nightbird » Sun, 13 May 2018, 12:01

How the blocklist works can be a problem.

I run the add-on security level OFF (no-addon will be blocked).

- i got a popup (PM has determined...problems)
PM wished / wanted to disable the add-on (and "disabled" was checked => why not unchecked since i choose to run the security level OFF / a metaphor : opt in / opt out)
- the block list is always enabled
a blocklist fully disabled can be a problem for sure.
why ? the same block list works for add-ons / plugins / gfx drivers.

a better granularity would be useful :)

why not 3 blocklists ? a white list if i choose to run the security level Off ?

55trucker
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu, 25 Feb 2016, 10:54

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby 55trucker » Sun, 13 May 2018, 12:58

I've been away from home for a couple of weeks, got home last night, booted up the pc, went online & discovered this addon debacle with Noscript,

what happened to the program to bring this all about?

User avatar
helloimustbegoing
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu, 28 Jun 2012, 01:20

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby helloimustbegoing » Sun, 13 May 2018, 13:59

55trucker wrote:
what happened to the program to bring this all about?

It can break sites (won't load) even if all scripts are allowed. That happened to me and I stopped using it just a couple of days before this, to use your word, debacle started.

55trucker
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu, 25 Feb 2016, 10:54

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby 55trucker » Sun, 13 May 2018, 14:26

Does this in any way relate to the new Firefox Quantum release & the version 10 Noscript?
My Pale Moon version is 27.9, the Noscript version is 5.0.6, is there a version 10 that is compatible with Pale Moon?

User avatar
Nigaikaze
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 805
Joined: Sun, 02 Feb 2014, 22:15
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Nigaikaze » Sun, 13 May 2018, 14:29

55trucker wrote:is there a version 10 that is compatible with Pale Moon?

No.

User avatar
Isengrim
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 457
Joined: Tue, 08 Sep 2015, 22:54
Location: 127.0.0.1
Contact:

Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Unread postby Isengrim » Sun, 13 May 2018, 14:58

55trucker wrote:Does this in any way relate to the new Firefox Quantum release & the version 10 Noscript?
My Pale Moon version is 27.9, the Noscript version is 5.0.6, is there a version 10 that is compatible with Pale Moon?


No. NoScript 10 is a WebExtension add-on, which Pale Moon does not support.
Linux Mint 18.3 Cinnamon (64-bit)
Windows 7 (64-bit) (Sometimes)
Windows 10 (64-bit) (Sometimes)
We are our choices.


Return to “Browser extensions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Moz [Crawler] and 7 guests