Want to talk about NoScript? Post here. Topic is solved

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eldorel
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Re: I'm overreacting and leaving because NoScript.

Post by eldorel » 2018-05-12, 14:10

satrow wrote:
rlcoone wrote:
satrow wrote:Instead of throwing your toys out of the pram, how about switching from critic/feedback mode into supplying enough detail to enable replication of these issues?
He tried that and the thread was closed in the middle of people trying to help him. Open that one back up and let them finish troubleshooting.
'He' only has 3 Posts here, you're saying he has multiple accounts here, or are you perhaps confusing him with someone else?
I think that you guys are referring to different people with "He".
There are quite a few people in this thread that you could both be referring to.

I think rlcoone is referring to "craftsman", who did have another thread trying to address the problem, and who was having an issue with noscript not being enabled despite appearing to still be enabled in the addons ui.

Here's the point in craftsman's other thread where it became someone clear that something weird was happening >> viewtopic.php?f=46&t=19115#p141003

Perhaps using names would be a good idea.
Last edited by eldorel on 2018-05-12, 14:14, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: I'm overreacting and leaving because NoScript.

Post by satrow » 2018-05-12, 14:23

Craftsman appears to be more paranoid about security than the average Pale Moon user, perhaps this is also reflected in some of the background software, browser settings, Add-ons etc. he uses. Troubleshooting sometimes requires stripping back to a default OS + security/browser settings and making single steps to work out the point of failure. All PCs are unique in their software/settings, making the ones with deeper changes than usual very difficult to troubleshoot.

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Re: I'm overreacting and leaving because NoScript.

Post by eldorel » 2018-05-12, 14:32

satrow wrote:Craftsman appears to be more paranoid about security than the average Pale Moon user, perhaps this is also reflected in some of the background software, browser settings, Add-ons etc. he uses. Troubleshooting sometimes requires stripping back to a default OS + security/browser settings and making single steps to work out the point of failure. All PCs are unique in their software/settings, making the ones with deeper changes than usual very difficult to troubleshoot.
You know what else makes issues "very difficult to troubleshoot"?
Closing the thread mid-diagnosis because the problem happens to be related to the current hot-topic and the user is upset. (perhaps justifiably)

I already made my opinion of the thread locking clear further up, but I would argue that his thread in particular was an error.

Sadly, it's probably too late to correct.

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Re: I'm overreacting and leaving because NoScript.

Post by satrow » 2018-05-12, 14:36

Can we cut the critique now? No details, can't help, repetitions will get locked. Plant the soapboxes elsewhere, please.

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Re: I'm overreacting and leaving because NoScript.

Post by Skaendo » 2018-05-12, 15:35

If you start here viewtopic.php?f=46&t=19115#p140998 you can clearly see that there were people trying to help craftsman including myself and YOU satrow, but the thread got closed by admin likely because they only bothered to read the first post and decided that the entire thread was nothing but ranting. That is clearly evident by the last posts' content and subsequent locking of the thread. If I were craftsman, I would be mad too and left.

And if you ask me, no craftsman is not "more paranoid" than the average user, you should be able to see that by the amount of people and threads that oppose this blacklisting of NoScript. I may be considered one of your more advanced users, because I tweak my about:config settings and use security add-ons like NoScript and crush those cookies and HTTPS Everywhere, but what makes me only come here when I have a problem like adding a add-on to the blacklist that should not in my view be added there because it is a security feature and the likely problem with that add-on is user error or not educated/too lazy to RTFM about it, is because of the hostile environment that goes on here most of the time when people clearly oppose something that is happening with Pale Moon. I used to think that it was great that the devs were here in the forums helping people where they could, and Moonchild has answered a post or 2 of mine with clear concise answers to questions that I have had, but once you start to question anyone or their decisions it turns very hostile very fast.

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Re: I'm overreacting and leaving because NoScript.

Post by satrow » 2018-05-12, 15:58

Hostile environment, Skaendo? Keep on that track and see how long this Topic stays open.

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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by Admin » 2018-05-12, 16:46

This topic will stay open until people have sorted out their opinions, problems, overreactions and arguments.

It's unlikely there will be much, if any, developer involvement here -- as stated in the announcement/sticky of last December, you are pretty much on your own.

You want to assist each other? Go ahead, this is the place to do it. Keep things civil if you can. If you can't and someone takes offense, then normal forum rules as regards warnings and bans will be applied. You're given this free space to work out your issues -- don't abuse it.

Have a great weekend, people.
Last edited by Admin on 2018-05-12, 16:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by superA » 2018-05-12, 17:19

So, I read again MC's statement here viewtopic.php?f=46&t=17619 .
Also the polite warning in APO https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/noscript/ .

Sorry, but I cant find anything about ''known security and stability issues'' for the browser using the addon.

My question still stands, why NS is offered in the addons site if it makes trouble to PaleMoon.
You've chosen to add it in your blocklist,
''instead of asking the community for feedback about something that people obviously feel VERY strongly about, you have chosen to censor and lock the threads of those you feel are being unreasonable'' as eldorel said above.

Seems to me that PM28 won't support NS and you find this way out.

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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by Skaendo » 2018-05-12, 17:48

superA wrote:Seems to me that PM28 won't support NS and you find this way out.
Please don't say that if it's only speculation, because I will have to start looking for a new browser right now.

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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by BlueOwl » 2018-05-12, 17:49

superA wrote:Sorry, but I cant find anything about ''known security and stability issues'' for the browser using the addon.
I'm not a moderator but, in the link you posted, see:
Moonchild wrote:Switching NoScript to "allow all", disabling NoScript in the add-on manager, or any other attempt at fixing these issues without performing a full uninstall of the extension are, on top, usually met with failure.
Also three posts down on that same thread:
Moonraker wrote:It should be noted that when noscript is uninstalled from PM that remnants can still be found in about:config.
Changing advanced hidden preferences in about:config (there's a reason about:config says "There be dragons here!") and not returning them to the previous state upon disabling and/or uninstall is what qualifies as causing browser stability issues.

Skaendo, that last bit superA wrote was just speculation.

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Re: Why is my topic closed??

Post by modball » 2018-05-12, 17:51

adesh wrote:They are just "encouraging" you to find a "guard" which works in harmony with the product, and not against it.
I appreciate your perspective on choices and mine will likely be a shift to another FF fork or back to ESR, which functions just fine with NoScript.

I'd much rather view a broken website that I will likely never visit again to a browser displaying garbage ads and offsite code containing potential exploits.

I noticed the Pale Moon NoScript page has been updated since the last DuckDuckGo/Bing crawl:

Image

Gives a bit of perspective on who NoScript is actually causing problems for.

The worst part though is the reaction to users concerns from the dev's/admins. Reminds me of filing redhat bugzilla reports.. WONT FIX.

Good luck to you all.

*edit: strikethrough inaccurate statement
Last edited by modball on 2018-05-12, 18:41, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why is my topic closed??

Post by BlueOwl » 2018-05-12, 17:56

modball wrote: I noticed the Pale Moon NoScript page has been updated since the last DuckDuckGo/Bing crawl:
Image

Gives a bit of perspective on who NoScript is actually causing problems for.
The "you're using an adblocker" notice IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO NO SCRIPT. I see it too with uBlock Origin.

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Re: Why is my topic closed??

Post by modball » 2018-05-12, 18:01

BlueOwl wrote:The "you're using an adblocker" notice IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO NO SCRIPT. I see it too with uBlock Origin.
True. Regardless, it's a shame it had to end this way.
Last edited by modball on 2018-05-12, 18:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by BlueOwl » 2018-05-12, 18:04

Maybe I didn't explain clearly enough, that notice has been around for as long as I can remember (and I first used Pale Moon back when Australis arrived in FF) in all pages in palemoon.org. So this notice appearing for you, I think, has nothing to do with NoScript's current status.

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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by modball » 2018-05-12, 18:34

BlueOwl wrote:Maybe I didn't explain clearly enough, that notice has been around for as long as I can remember (and I first used Pale Moon back when Australis arrived in FF) in all pages in palemoon.org. So this notice appearing for you, I think, has nothing to do with NoScript's current status.
Thanks, I understood what you were saying. To clarify, I was wrong about the page being changed and that enabling the block for palemoon.org will generate the same message.
Last edited by modball on 2018-05-12, 18:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by gracious1 » 2018-05-12, 18:46

Code Panda wrote:How would I be able to install a replacement such as uMatrix in that case? Without Firefox telling me to install... Firefox.
Review this tutorial:
How to install uMatrix in Pale Moon 27 in GNU/Linux (Ubuntu)
You should also also read subsequent posts because there are some additional steps you may need to take since I originally posted the tutorial, and you have do things slightly differently for Windows.

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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by Skaendo » 2018-05-12, 19:45

BlueOwl wrote:Changing advanced hidden preferences in about:config (there's a reason about:config says "There be dragons here!") and not returning them to the previous state upon disabling and/or uninstall is what qualifies as causing browser stability issues.
If that is the case, then Adblock Latitude needs to be blacklisted and labeled because it also leaves modifications in about:config even after uninstalling it and restarting Pale Moon:

Code: Select all

extensions.adblockplus.notificationdata	{"lastCheck":1526152681523,"softExpiration":1526227145767,"hardExpiration":1526325483707,"data":{"notifications":[],"version":"201805121917"},"lastError":0,"downloadStatus":"synchronize_ok	downloadCount":1}	String
I did a complete wipe of my HDD, reinstalled my OS, installed Pale Moon, installed Adblock Latitude, restarted Pale Moon, uninstalled Adblock Latitude, restarted Pale Moon and checked about:config. That string was left over.
Last edited by Skaendo on 2018-05-12, 19:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why is my topic closed??

Post by Lunix » 2018-05-12, 19:54

BlueOwl wrote:
modball wrote: I noticed the Pale Moon NoScript page has been updated since the last DuckDuckGo/Bing crawl:
Image

Gives a bit of perspective on who NoScript is actually causing problems for.
The "you're using an adblocker" notice IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO NO SCRIPT. I see it too with uBlock Origin.
I see it too with Moonchild's own AdBlockLatitude.

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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by Pallid Planetoid » 2018-05-12, 20:12

It seems to me there is an over reaction on both sides -- the add-on can still be used in Pale Moon so it's not the end of the world. That said, I don't see why Pale Moon wants to do what I would also call an over reaction which in my view is purely based on not wanting to support Pale Moon users who elect to use the add-on because of the relatively rare cases involving NS users who fail properly use NS. But think about it -- as we all are very well aware -- there are a myriad of add-ons that will break Pale Moon (or any browser for that matter) and as we all know it is always recommended to test a browser problem using "Safe Mode" or using a "fresh" profile. So with that in mind it occurs to me that Pale Moon could have avoided all of the antagonism from its users by just sticking to the warning about NS and leave it at that and not take it a step more as they have in order to avoid all of the angry rhetoric and over reaction by previous loyal users and at the same time avoid reactions we see in many places one example of which is this: Hold on your palemoon horses! Danger!... as well (take a read on this link to see an example of what I mean).

The fact is, if I may say so with all due respect -- this new implementation by Pale Moon was in my opinion not thought out well and if you don't believe me just look around at other websites and forums (i.e. NoScript and others) where you will find this new development in Pale Moon is vociferously being discussed in ways that would appear to only be detrimental to Pale Moon's user base. Really, why damage the growing popularity Pale Moon simply because an add-on is perceived to make it more difficult to support the browser? It is impossible to alleviate all the potential problems that the misuse of add-ons can create in a browser and it makes absolutely no sense to black-list add-ons for "instability" or "usability" alone that as we know are ultimately caused by the user which in my view is the case since to claim actual "security" risks are a reason, which is clearly the only valid reason to black-list, are to be fair at best a real stretch.

A matter of attempting to limit a level of support inconvenience is simply not worth all of this -- clearly the add-on does NOT create a "security risk"! Another example of an over reaction on the part of Pale Moon (who has from what I know prided itself in allowing users the greatest amount of freedom of choice regarding what they want in a browser) is exactly how Pale Moon describes the reasons for their decision:
Your add-on has been blocked or disabled because it is known to be malware, has known security vulnerabilities (especially in the case of plugins), is known to cause instability, or known to cause (severe) usability issues.
I have struck-out what I would call arguably inaccurate conclusions -- it is most certainly NOT "malware" and I would like to know what "security vulnerabilities" that exist any more than would potentially be the case with any software that might need to sometimes apply upgrades to address issues that develop which happens to be the case for ALL software including Operating Systems themselves. Sure the add-on can cause "instability" and/or "usability issues" -- how many other add-ons can also do this when used improperly? This is a prefect example of what I would in my view call an over reaction. I would suggest that Pale Moon make an effort going forward to take a step back and mollify their over reaction regarding this add-on who's purpose it is to actually improve Internet security.
Last edited by Pallid Planetoid on 2018-05-12, 20:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Want to talk about NoScript? Post here.

Post by rlcoone » 2018-05-12, 20:25

That is a very good analysis.

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