I'm thinking about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me? Topic is solved

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nguyen9173
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I'm thinking about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me?

Unread post by nguyen9173 » 2022-06-19, 16:45

Looking at web compatibility problems like this viewtopic.php?f=70&t=28167 make me wonder a quick and dirty workaround like this. An addon with a list of websites which will be sent to an external browser (Chrome or Firefox) to be rendered and will be displayed embedded on a Pale Moon tab. This kind of tab will be decorated different to indicate they are just fetching from an external browser and it's not Pale Moon that rendered this page.
Last edited by nguyen9173 on 2022-06-19, 16:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I'm think about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me?

Unread post by nguyen9173 » 2022-06-19, 16:49

From what I read on this forum it seems Mozilla has broken the ability for Firefox to be embedded so we will have to find another solution. But something like this exists this means there must be a way to do what we are proposing with Mozilla Firefox as the rendering browser: https://www.brow.sh/ Meanwhile even though being hatred so much here the Chromium project is always take embedded in mind and they have the CEF to help with easy embedding Chromium so using Chromium as the rendering browser will be much more easier.

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Re: I'm think about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me?

Unread post by nguyen9173 » 2022-06-19, 16:52

On Windows, MS Edge could be a choice, too. MS also makes it easy to embedded Edge in other applications. The Chromium family are all easy to be embedded. The Mozilla family on the other hand are not.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/micros ... /webview2/

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Re: I'm thinking about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me?

Unread post by athenian200 » 2022-06-19, 17:32

Actually, I've had that idea myself. I've been considering creating an "Edge Tab" extension as a sort of successor to IE Tab, because WebView2 looks really easy to work with. WebView2 will ship with Windows in the future too, which is important because embedding a whole copy of Chromium seems too messy. It's like... I wouldn't want to ship a copy of Chromium, but if there's a perfectly usable embeddible web view control in the OS already, well...

I've been focused on other stuff obviously, but I definitely think something like that is worth creating. I don't know if it would need an NPAPI plugin companion or if it could be just an extension, but either way something like a modern IE Tab seems like the perfect stopgap solution while we work on the engine.
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Re: I'm thinking about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me?

Unread post by fuzzlesnuz » 2022-06-21, 09:40

My 2 cents... It's a very slippery slope and could (would) be very unhealthy for the Pale Moon project. tl;dr, it feels like it goes against almost everything Pale Moon stands for.

IE Mode integrates what most consider an inferior browser engine into what most consider a superior one. It exists to fulfill enterprise contracts between Microsoft and companies who have invested their livelihood in the way Trident runs their behemoth erp with 20 year old code that no one will ever touch. This is not something which improves Chredge for the typical user. This is not something which compels people to install Chredge on their home PCs.

Before the next paragraph, let me just remind us all that we choose Pale Moon for many reasons, which, in some way or another, tend to boil down to the fact that it is distinctly not Chromezilla. And we have Chromezilla backup browsers as needed, and only when needed.

The proposition of a Chromezilla Mode would integrate what most consider a superior browser into what most consider an inferior one. At first, there will be more resistance than indulgence in Chromezilla Mode among the PM userbase, but that will not last. People will notice it is much easier to flip Chromezilla mode on instead of booting up the backup browser. It's so convenient, and it makes every website magically work again. What if... I just left it on all the time? After all, it's annoying to turn it on and then have to turn it back off. Hmm. Why did I even have it off in the first place? I can just leave it always on, and every website will always work... Add to that the other half of users who flip it on and then simply forget to turn it back off, and the slippery slope has taken us to a point where there is more indulgence in Chromezilla than resistance to it. Suddenly, half or more of the PM userbase is in permanent Chromezilla Mode, and Pale Moon is nothing more than a glorified skin around CEF. Another Chromium clone.

If PM becomes another Chromium clone, then there is no significant reason for Pale Moon (the browser) and the Pale Moon (the project) to exist. Just in the same way that there is no real reason for the multitude of safari clones on iOS to exist, or the 100+ Chromium clones on PC and Android. Technologically, it defeats a prime reason for PM to exist (preservation of Mozilla technologies like XUL). Logistically, it requires additional manhours for Moonchild et al to maintain PM and CEF glue side-by-side. Sociologically, it would fracture the PM userbase and induce exodus among users who were on the fence about their choices in web browsers. And the list goes on. There's some old folk phrase along the lines of "Never invite the devil into your home." As in, what fool would do such a thing to themself?

None of this is groundless speculation, either. We have the prime case study of Mozilla doing a very similar thing to themselves when they abandoned their own technology and started taking their paychecks from Google. We are living in the future of that decision, and it's the reason why a lot of us are using Pale Moon in the first place. Did you learn anything from that? Do you really want a sequel?

I would hate to see Pale Moon meet a terrible fate by way of Chromification.

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Re: I'm thinking about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me?

Unread post by sidology » 2022-06-21, 10:13

athenian200 wrote:
2022-06-19, 17:32
Actually, I've had that idea myself. I've been considering creating an "Edge Tab" extension as a sort of successor to IE Tab, because WebView2 looks really easy to work with.
This would be awesome. I am tired of having to use 2 browsers.
fuzzlesnuz wrote:
2022-06-21, 09:40
My 2 cents... It's a very slippery slope and could (would) be very unhealthy for the Pale Moon project. tl;dr, it feels like it goes against almost everything Pale Moon stands for.
It's just an addon, no one will force you to install it.

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Re: I'm thinking about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me?

Unread post by TheRealMaestro » 2022-06-21, 15:22

fuzzlesnuz wrote:
2022-06-21, 09:40
Pale Moon [would become] nothing more than a glorified skin around CEF.
To be fair, even if this were to happen, keeping such a boundary between chrome and content would be unique enough in itself, as Athenian had kindly told me here. He outlines also the challenges that a Gecko/Blink mode would have there.
athenian200 wrote:
2022-06-19, 17:32
I don't know if it would need an NPAPI plugin companion or if it could be just an extension, but either way something like a modern IE Tab seems like the perfect stopgap solution while we work on the engine.
I like this idea! A new plug-in would be a delight: it shows the NPAPI still has its place and sees active development this decade. I had not used IE Tab in its day, so I wonder now: how had extensions worked with it back then? I am sure that there were many Firefox users who wanted, for example, to block adverts in IE mode, yet XUL extensions to this end would have likely fought with Trident, for reasons like those you had mentioned in the other post. How were these conflicts settled? There might be a hint we could use here therein.

※Should you build such a plug-in, I would be thankful for a Linux edition also. Many distros come with Firefox installed by default. It, Ungoogled Chromium or Epiphany might offer the right ‘stock’ for us, as Edge would be for the Windows version. How to create such a NPAPI plug-in, that Pale Moon could be used in Browser X Mode, might someday make a good tutorial.
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Re: I'm thinking about an IE Tab like addon anyone has the same idea as me?

Unread post by gepus » 2022-06-21, 15:46

sidology wrote:
2022-06-21, 10:13
This would be awesome. I am tired of having to use 2 browsers.
And how many browsers would you use with such an add-on???
sidology wrote:
2022-06-21, 10:13
It's just an addon, no one will force you to install it.
True.

I have an even better idea.
How about forking Chrome and make the GUI to resemble with that of Pale Moon?

Just one browser without the need to open yet another.

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