Clearing up confusion and misconception of the Add-ons Site and Team

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Because certain people are now openly spreading confusion and misconceptions I must clear up the current state of the Add-ons Site and Team.

Let me start by saying that during November 2016 I stepped down from direct participation from the Pale Moon project due to other priorities taking precedence at the time. I have been privileged to have played a major role in this project and contribute what I did in that time. As has been stated elsewhere, I remain a community member and general user of Pale Moon.

At that time my position of Administrator and Coordinator of Secondary Services ceases to exist.

Upon this I trained and generally brought two fantastic people up to speed to fill the void left at the top of the Pale Moon Add-ons Team. These people are:

Andrew Gilbertson aka AndyTheAbsurd
-and-
Ryan aka Lootyhoof

The responsibilities of administrating the content of the Add-ons Site has gone to them. They have been given (along with Moonchild) full root access to the Server, which I have donated to the Pale Moon Project and continue to fund out of my own pocket.

As is the case when you leave a position that you have been deeply intertwined with for over two years there is a transitional period. Ryan who has been with the Add-ons Team was given the remaining training along with Andy getting full training on how to manage the Add-ons Site. Make no mistake THEY Administrate the Add-ons Site. I make no decisions in day to day operations of what content or add-ons are added to the site and haven't since November.

The software that runs the Add-ons Site known as Phoebus (another name for Apollo.. Apollo mission.. Moon Landing.. Pale Moon... GET IT?) is a project I, admittedly should have sooner, created and landed on Nov 8th 2016. However, as some have noted there are some deficiencies in this initial first version of the software as the first version's job was to replace the CMSMS-Hybrid that preceded it.

Though my leaving the project and position I held was somewhat sudden I felt that I could not just leave the community high and dry in regards to the Add-ons Site.. I had done enough of that already so I committed to continuing development of the base software when my time permitted. As well as completing any remaining bookkeeping in other areas such as xRef. I have thus far fixed a few issues people had and were wanting in the form of the All Extensions page and the hover styling for Search Plugins. There were also promises I made that must be kept so this is a commitment I wanted to keep even though I am not involved in any day to day operation of the Add-ons Team or the Pale Moon project as a whole.

I do, still do server maintenance on Regolith (the name of the server that runs the Add-ons Site and Wiki) as purely infrastructure basis and the afore mentioned continue development of Project Phoebus. I also continue to fund the server as a continued donation to the Project.

In specific regards to the Add-ons Team and Project Phoebus I act as an outside consultant and code monkey effectively in a role reversal as they now run the Add-ons Site and Team I report to them. (I am sure that will interest them now directly stated ).

I believe in Project Phoebus as much as I believe in the broader Pale Moon project. Phoebus is software I wrote specifically to cater to the needs of the Pale Moon project and welcome any additional help. I have even asked for some and no one has stepped up.

However, the basic roadmap for Project Phoebus is:

Version 1.5 (Currently Production Planning moving to implementation scheduled to start in Feb 2017)
- Listing of Old versions of Add-ons
- Establishment of an unstable channel for beta versions of add-ons
- Additional metadata for add-ons including Homepage, Support page, License
- New tools to help reduce manual manipulation in administration

Version 2.0 (Pre-production Planning)
- Move everything to SQL
- Self Service of Add-ons for Developers
- Administration Panel for the Add-ons Team
- Restoration of the Search functionality
- Perhaps much more

I do not want to abandon these efforts as they are the last of my lingering promises and points for completely closing out my bookkeeping.. Basically, I started this and I want to finish it as it is my responsibility.

Though, it seems my general style of expressing my self has made some new adversaries out to delegitimize and discredit me personally and indirectly the Add-ons Team and seemingly do not want me to keep my promises as a matter of principle calling for Phoebus and the work involved on the Add-ons Site to be replaced with something else and not completed merely because I happen to be involved.

Be that as it may, I do not report to them I report to the broader community and when work involves a specific area of the broader Pale Moon project I report to those in charge which in this case is Andy and Ryan and ultimately Moonchild even in this outside consultant capacity.

So to summarize. I have no power or authority over the Add-ons Team or this Project in general. I just wanna keep my promises and help when I can.

I hope this has clarified things for those wondering and I thank you for your time.

Do please contribute your thoughts.

[GreenGeek]

It's going to be even more important to have a good addons site with the changes that are coming to Mozilla. We might need something workable kind of quick because it is really unknown exactly what is planned over at AMO. It is and has been difficult to use any older Firefox or forked browser with their site, and I'm sure it's about to get a lot worse.

I think 2 main things are bothering some of us about APO (that's addons . palemoon . org. not APMO by the way).

1) Appearance and Ease of Use - not very appealing (the home page is just text), the pages that list extensions by category do not have an install link but force you to open each extension's page to install, then those pages have no screenshots, no user reviews, and not much useful description in a lot of cases, the install link says "Download ..." rather than install even though it does install. The themes, which I don't use, are better. You talk about Project Phoebus, but to users it sounds like just a programmers code name with nothing visible backing it up ... give us useable features not project names.

But overall, the APO site seems the same as it was 2 years ago. And your promise of a ver 2.0 sounds a lot like the promise 2 years ago of an improved version. SQL in 2.0? Well, SQL is built-in to almost every off the shelf CMS solution readily available that could be up and running in a matter of days. An addons site doesn't really need to be different than software downloads and ready made solutions for that have been available for over a decade.

2) No known way to upload, or register as a developer, other than (at least in the past) submitting a private message to you to get an extension added. People like to participate, not ask for permission. Letting developers upload, with a period for review and approval by the Addons Team, would make them more interested in PM extension developement. Also, users should have some way to participate also, by reviewing, rating, and contacting developers. If there is no interaction possible, why not just have static HTML.

While the extension development aspect has been more interesting to me (I can't build the browser from source making contributing to the core difficult), with the way things are here on the forum, I'm not sure I'd want to get involved. If the person in charge were friendly it might make a difference.

Also, we shouldn't drive away the big extension developer gurus who do occasionally visit the forum (gorhill is still here but Chuck B. left AFAIK, so did others I think); instead we need more of them to come. Pale Moon should offer them whatever they need. I would enjoy trying to help them and that would be way more productive than me hacking their extensions to get minimal compatibility. I asked for a forum section to discuss this and there was no response (yea, it could be hosted elsewhere, but would be better (more visible) if hosted here (like on MozZ)).

I am not important here, so my opinions canned be ignored, but I bet there are others who share my view but don't speak up. I know you are moderator of this forum section, so do what you will. Heck, I can easily live with getting banned; I rarely ever come here to get help, and my suggestions are ignored.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

My remaining moderator status and custom forum title needs cleared.

There is no off the shelf solution for the items you want but I agree with most of the features suggested.

Creating something from scratch is never easy and and creating superior solutions is even harder.

One does not take into accout of security factors with user submitted materal going into a database nor the actual design of said database and schema but these are just as important if not absolutely critical aspects of good and sustainable software design.

In the matter of comments.. That is easily done with an external service like disqus or done internally but then you run into additional issues of more surface of user submitted content security not to mention administrative moderation burdon.. Perhaps a solution could be in the form of displaying rss feed of a selected forum thread or the like.

One must also tempor the temptation of just trying to clone AMO to the actual needs and intended desires of what is going to be offered by The Pale Moon Project.

I am continuing to work with (for?) the Add-ons Team to satisfy those requests and demands of the software.

However, as I stated I am not in charge of content. That is up to the current Administration. Not that I disagree and there is an open issue to rewrite the front page originally opened by myself.

Whatever technical requirements they feel they want for it as the end result I will try and accomplish.

I do want to make this one obervation on the misconception on how the site visually looks identical to the previous incarnation... That was absolutely intended especially for this inital version. Just as Pale Moon its self is almost visually identical on the surface between 26 and 27 there are massive differences in major components. Now of course Phoebus 1.0 looks like CMSMS-Hybrid because it displays the same end resulting information constructed with the same markup and styling. But the code is different.

[LimboSlam]

Dude, everything I gotta say is pure from the heart and what I observed over the last 2 years. Please don't take it wrongly. If you do, take a walk and then message me privately.

Honestly, Matt A Tobin (It feels weird calling you by your full name, even typing it is a struggle, lol. Yeah, us teachers know each other by fist name or nickname basis), you did alright to the best of your abilities in the position you volunteered for. In fact, you did awesome at managing/coordinating every project or program/software here in the forums. Not to mention your coding skills are pretty versatile, cool indeed. I, personally, wouldn't be able to take on all those task, and especially learn how to code. Not enough patience for this type of filed, maybe. Although, the only part I think your rusty in is your people skills. Some things you said were border line of an agitator or bullying, and definitely quite rude at times.

In short, you did pretty good to the best of your abilities. So thank you for being part of this project and for your future contributions.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

I appreciate your words very much.

It is no big secret I am frankly terrible at the whole public relations thing. I am thankful that most can get past that and see the passion for ideals and dedication that goes along with sometimes abrasive and blunt way in which I conduct my self.

I have always been a sort of agitator but not a malicious one. In fact I am seen as a Mozilla Agitator in the past. Bullying however, it could seem like but that would carry that malicious intent. That intent wasn't ever apart of anything I may have posted or the work I did. Though, I understand why that may seem to be the case sometimes.

Everyone has flaws and I am not blind to my own and I do appreciate your post because it does not just focus on my flaws as a reason or justification to put forth an agenda but merely states them for what they are.

So thank you LimboSlam.

[joe04]

I appreciate your efforts on this project; afterall, if you hadn't stepped up and made and hosted an Add-on site there probably wouldn't be one. While I agree with the criticisms of JustOff & GreenGeek, at the end of the day a semi-crappy Add-on site is much better than none at all. Selfishly-speaking, if it wasn't for the site I wouldn't have several of my add-ons. So I thank you for that and for your work on Tycho.

I don't know you and I'm not a regular around here, so I won't say too much negative. But having spent a lot of time on this forum the past 10 days, here are my observations:
a) You come off as very self-righteous and rigid. My-way-or-the-highway. Correcting and scolding others.
b) Your signature makes it even worse. An obnoxious "No one can stop me!" logo plus a rambling quote make you look like a lunatic.

Honestly, seems like some time away from the forum may do you some good.

[fillerup]

b) Your signature makes it even worse. An obnoxious "No one can stop me!" logo plus a rambling quote make you look like a lunatic

i see the 'no one can stop me' sign as self motivational, and there's nothing wrong with that. the quote is a pop culture reference, nothing wrong with that either. judge him for his contributions and the content of his posts, not the superficiality you mentioned

that said i do agree he can relax a little and take things a weeny bit less seriously than he does

[half-moon]

b) Your signature makes it even worse. An obnoxious "No one can stop me!" logo plus a rambling quote make you look like a lunatic.

It's pretty obvious you don't play video games. His signature is a quote from Portal 2.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

To be fair.. I am a lunatic.. Only a lunatic would be crazy enough to do the things I've done. Go against conventional wisdom and mainstream status quo.. Create an add-ons site.. Etc.

Though, I think self-righteous is a bit unfair. As for my signature image.. Really? Come on.. As for the quote.. Never played Portal? It is a good game.

[joe04]

The video game quote on its own would simply be a goofy insider joke that can easily be ignored by the rest of us.
But the loud, obnoxious logo image in the sig is an eyesore. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

So here is a question. What would you prefer instead? I am not part of the project anymore so my old Project signature wouldn't work?

If I remove the "catchphrase" then the image would be unbalanced. If I make it not at an angle.. that would be betraying the intent of the design. If I remove it all together it stifles my own personality, creativity, and expression.. So.. what is your suggestion.

[joe04]

Remove the logo images. They make you look obnoxious and foolish.

(Like I said, keep the game quote. Plaintext blends in and can easily be ignored when reading, but images stick out too prominently.)

[rabnbeinn]

I personally think there is nothing wrong with your sig, it's an interpretation of who are and you sir are an individual. I say leave your sig as it is. The regular users on this forum know you are a good man and willing to help others when it is needed. You say it how it is and I have respect for you because of that.

As for the add-ons side of things, well, I only use one or two so I don't have much feedback on that matter, but you gave two years of your time to the project and you're still giving and for that I salute you.

You are who you are and you should not change that.

[Gandalfdjh]

My LORD

Everyone has an opinion, which they are entiled to!

But for heaven sakes - "If you can not say something nice - just keep it to yourself"

What one person likes is that persons business. If you do not like it, then do not look at it or read it.

If you attack someone, be prepared to handle the consequences.

Some individuals will always speak the truth, thus be prepared for it. The TRUTH sometimes hurts, but the truth is the TRUTH.

To quote an IRC chat (with permission from Pause):

<Pause> For what it's worth NewTobinParadigm, I as a simple user of Pale Moon already understood that you are simply fulfilling what you feel like you promised and also just trying to help where you can in general (something which is always helpful to any project). Thank You for your past service and for everything you continue to do (especially the continued development of Project Phoebus, which nobody in their right mind would expect to be even remotely easy to
<Pause> accomplish what it does and will provide). Honestly, JustOff strikes me as someone who thinks that if you're not specifically "on" the Pale Moon team, it means you must not provide any value to the project - which completely ignores the collaborative nature of what Open Source is all about. As for riis, I'm just baffled as to how they could even come to the mistaken conclusion that you control the Add-ons Team.

FYI - I totally agree with his comments.

[half-moon]

But the loud, obnoxious logo image in the sig is an eyesore. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

What logo exactly? I don't see one.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

This one:

[kizo07]

This one:

In those days of freedom, democracy and creativity is your choice, of course. But, you should think a bit bigger picture...you are free, creative person but in same time you 'representing' Pale Moon. Ok, you don't need to have a suit and tie, but not 'Beware of the dog' either.
A lot of people here 'looking at you' as one of big boys in Pale Moon house. You can be inspiration and motivational in many ways.
Just a thought...I know about some cases where 'some lunatics' have jumped from buildings, right after they saw 'Just do it' , Nike's slogan.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

When I was apart of the Project and had the signature image of the Pale Moon Project.. Which I created and most everyone uses now a days, I represented the project. These days I'm not representing anything but my self. Hence the new signature image. Before someone cites what is written on the right there under my avatar.. That needs to be cleared whenever it gets got to.

Anyway, will be back to the forum when there is news on the Project Phoebus Software! In the meantime, you should direct questions and concerns to the wonderful people on the Pale Moon Add-ons Team!

[kizo07]

Ok,
In the meantime, I think we all Pale Moon's wonderful people should take life with a grain of salt...plus a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila.

[Gandalfdjh]

Ok,
In the meantime, I think we all Pale Moon's wonderful people should take life with a grain of salt...plus a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila.

Agree, but also remember this: "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." — Theodore Roosevelt