Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

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TerryB1962
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Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by TerryB1962 » 2019-04-28, 21:18

I do find the extensions/add-ons pages a bit unwieldy and unhelpful.
Starting with the PM menu [Tools - add ons} we get taken to a web page that has another menu headed with [get add ons] Which shows us a page explaining where the FF addons have gone, and a link to another page that is the add ons site that we thought we were were selecting way back at the tools menu.
Which then takes us to another web page with a menu across the top that includes [extensions] etc.
Choosing [extensions] takes us to another page, which has categories, but no method of finding recently added ( i.e. stuff that we might want and we haven't already got it or popular ( i.e. stuff that we might want if we haven't already got it).
So the only way to find if there's something new or useful is to comb through each category.
It's as if the web page was designed to be used only by people with both a thorough knowledge of what is possible and a laser sharp focus on what they might want. Which is probably not many people. Most of us would visit the site to find if there's anything new, useful and interesting. Certainly once we have PM up and running and have found the must-have bits we're likely to go back to browse what's new, not search.
And of course this doesn't help recruit developers either. Because not many people would know they've added something new.

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by yami_ » 2019-04-28, 23:33

TerryB1962 wrote:
2019-04-28, 21:18
Starting with the PM menu [Tools - Add-ons] we get taken to a web page
This page is not a web-page, it is the add-on manager interface.
TerryB1962 wrote:
2019-04-28, 21:18
Choosing [extensions] takes us to another page, which has categories, but no method of finding recently added ( i.e. stuff that we might want and we haven't already got it or popular ( i.e. stuff that we might want if we haven't already got it).
So the only way to find if there's something new or useful is to comb through each category.
It's as if the web page was designed to be used only by people with both a thorough knowledge of what is possible and a laser sharp focus on what they might want. Which is probably not many people. Most of us would visit the site to find if there's anything new, useful and interesting. Certainly once we have PM up and running and have found the must-have bits we're likely to go back to browse what's new, not search.
This was discussed before and the requests to add a "recently added" list were denied.
TerryB1962 wrote:
2019-04-28, 21:18
And of course this doesn't help recruit developers either. Because not many people would know they've added something new.
I doubt that add-on developers would care about this.
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by TerryB1962 » 2019-04-30, 21:58

This page is not a web-page, it is the add-on manager interface
That's a quibble: If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck...
And doesn't address the actual issue - getting to the list of add-ons is a complicated trek through the pages.

the requests to add a "recently added" list were denied.

Just like that, because someone doesn't like the idea of newly added items being identified? Or a whim? Or is there actually a good and logical reason?
Noting that recently added is the usual way to go for similar types of software. The equivalent of "latest news".

I doubt that add-on developers would care about this.

So you think that developers want their creations hidden away? That doesn't sound like any kind of published developer, creator or author I've ever heard of in any field from software to sculpture. Your developers are admirably devoid of ego if this is the case. At least the ones you are aware of, since the other ones wouldn't be developing for PM so you wouldn't know about them.
Which leads back to my original comment.
It's as if the web page was designed to be used only by people with both a thorough knowledge of what is possible and a laser sharp focus on what they might want. Which is probably not many people.
. In other words, are you wanting PM to be a niche hobby product rather than one accessible to all potential users. If that's the case please say so and the rest of us can jump ship, stop recommending PM and go back to FF

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-04-30, 22:04

As I said in the other threads.. I will not be responsible for promoting favoritism between Extensions, Themes, or Applications.

Your request for re-evaluation is denied and that is final. Have a nice day.
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-04-30, 22:20

As stated in other threads, but I'll repeat it here for the sake of it:

- "recently added" will create favoritism for new add-ons. Basically copycats of other extensions will become front page news. So will extensions that are minor variants of the same thing, sometimes all published by the same developer.
- "recently updated" will create favoritism for extensions that get version bumped on every whim. Meaning unstable extensions are promoted over stable, long-standing extensions.
- "ratings" will create bias in favor of extension devs with more influence, or even in favor of extension devs who will manipulate the rating system to downvote similar extensions to their own, etc. etc.
- public comments are subject to the same bias as the previous point.

This is why we have chosen NOT to implement any of this on the add-ons site.
In other words, are you wanting PM to be a niche hobby product rather than one accessible to all potential users.
Excuse me but do NOT make the add-ons site somehow be a ruler for the browser to be measured against. Pale Moon is very accessible to many potential users, and how the add-ons site which provides optional extensions to it is organized has absolutely zero bearing on how accessible the browser itself is.
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-04-30, 22:27

We have had 15 years of seeing how AMO operated and 15 years of Firefox.. I really can't add anymore than what Moonchild added that I added when this last came up. Phoebus as well as the Unified XUL Platform are both about fairness and opportunity for all. This is what I personally want to promote. Not the new shiny or the long standing favorite. Be it Add-on or Application. Everyone is treated the same and we all work for the betterment of each of them directly or passively.
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by TerryB1962 » 2019-04-30, 22:32

These are fair points and I understand why you would implement this. But it does leave the issues hanging.
Users have no way of knowing if there is anything added since they first installed and set-up PM,
The potential for add-ons to improve the users' experience is diminished because they don't know what useful tools have become available
Developers who do come up with something really interesting and new may never be able to get it known "In the dark all cats are black".

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-04-30, 22:40

Well I guess they will have to announce it somewhere. Many announce it on this forum. Else, just browse around the Add-ons Site. Do know that the overwhelming majority of users are former Firefox users.

I just don't see a way that this can be done without having the problems mentioned. Just, explore the Add-ons Site.

Here is a thought: You could start a blog highlighting new and interesting Extensions and Themes. If you feel it is important to do. Assuming of course that really is the issue here and not that YOU can't find something and YOU don't want to have to be bothered to look, of course. I really hope that isn't the case but I am 98% sure it is. Prove me wrong.. SOMEONE prove me wrong for ONCE, I grow weary of the burden of being just about right on everything. About the being right part and about the fact that it pisses so many people off and they take it out on me for it.
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by TerryB1962 » 2019-05-01, 09:37

Which of course calls for the obvious response;
I already have all the add-ons I might want - as far as I know.

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by TerryB1962 » 2019-05-01, 09:40

Though, I do note that for the forums you have a sort option for "new posts".

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by TerryB1962 » 2019-05-01, 10:28

And since you want proof, screen shot of some of the add-ons I currently use ( a screen full)

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-05-01, 11:57

Who wanted proof that you use extensions? idgi.
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by JustOff » 2019-05-01, 12:22

This issue has been discussed many times already, but I still believe that the positive effect of "not creating favoritism" for extensions is too high a price for not being able to track new and updated add-ons created by conscientious authors.

I very much hope that at some point the add-ons server will at least provide an API that will allow everyone to track extensions updates using a custom tool.
Here are the add-ons I made in a spare time. That was fun!

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-05-01, 14:06

I could do RSS feeds for specific extension updates but not the site as a whole. This will go nicely with the planned addition of per-version release notes.

Expect to see that in Phoebus 2.1!

As for the API.. Hmm, the real issue there besides bypassing the favoritism block is that to compile that kind of data would require massive database query and processing of every add-on to determine those modes of data retrieval. This is the technical background of why I don't want to do it at all that goes along side the operational and policy decision. If I am not going to do an "All Extensions" page for the same reason past a certain threshold and that is JUST extensions what makes you think I want to commit to the resources it will take to do it for everything.

So you have technological and ideological reasons the latter can be disagreed with but the former cannot so easily be dismissed.

tl;dr Don't bet on it ;)
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by TerryB1962 » 2019-05-01, 16:33

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2019-05-01, 11:57
Who wanted proof that you use extensions? idgi.

I can only prove that I have searched for the add-ons I know about/want by demonstrating my use of these.
A response to your....
"......YOU can't find something and YOU don't want to have to be bothered to look, of course."

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by Nightbird » 2019-05-01, 17:16

"Anything" which would help to track new and updated add-ons would be nice. :)

With more addons coming on the PM add-on site, maybe it will be, one day, "discouraging" to track the addons if "no" help exists.

ps : I have some requests for any add-on(s) developer :
Can you, please, add a preview of the addon ?
and add a release note when you upgrade the add-on ?
Thanks :)
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by yami_ » 2019-05-01, 17:18

Nightbird wrote:
2019-05-01, 17:16
and add a release note when you upgrade the add-on ?
Currently this is not possible.
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-05-01, 17:20

yami_ wrote:
2019-05-01, 17:18
Nightbird wrote:
2019-05-01, 17:16
and add a release note when you upgrade the add-on ?
Currently this is not possible.
Beyond editing the main content page.. But I plan to make it specifically possible on a per-version basis in 2.1.
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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by JakeF » 2019-08-01, 14:30

May I distill this working add-ons? I have stated that QuickJava still works in PaleMoon (28.6.0.1), very, very nicely, and yet it is not on the add-ons extension page. It's probable that others are using add-ons that work fine but are no longer on the add-ons extension. This may be for very valid reasons unknown to the general forum. Still I bring up QuickJava because it beats all the other image, java, script, etc controllers hands down. It is especially useful for those using WinXX. Of course these abilities should be built in to browsers, as it was/is with Opera 12 -- and if one updates O12's scripting ability it still is king.

Of course the true problem with add-ons is that they are add-ons; those add-on functins would, should, work more smoothly if built in the browser. I've yet to find a clock that works a well as Opera 12's, or any other menu functions: want more than one bookmarks, nav functions, clocks? Drag 'em where you want them.

More, it's not so much that browsers, or any software becomes outdated, my DOS accounting software still works better and faster than the new junks, it is that the WWW has moved on with more pretty pics and other useless dreck, some good and desired functions, but mostly more manipulative junks to track you, smack you, and tie you down and snack on you. But hey, that's people which is the web.

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Re: Usability of the addons/ extensions site pages

Unread post by TerryB1962 » 2019-08-01, 16:05

This really doesn't seem to be relevant or helpful here.
From the site rules......
" This board is for specifics regarding the add-ons website (addons.palemoon.org) "

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