Notarization Poll

Discussions for the Apple Mac OS builds of Pale Moon

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Should we release the Intel Mac Pale Moon notarized?

Poll ended at 2023-05-01, 21:58

Release with existing 10.7 version requirements, without notarizing. (Extra step required to "Open Anyway" on each first run)
3
50%
Release for 10.9 notarized. (No extra steps required) With White Star for 10.7 and 10.8 on the contributed downloads page.
3
50%
 
Total votes: 6

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Notarization Poll

Unread post by dbsoft » 2023-04-17, 21:58

So in the process of preparing tomorrow's release, I ran into an issue caused by Apple changing the notarization requirements which coincided with the release of the new Xcode version. They now require you to target at least MacOS 10.9 to use the notarization service. We currently target 10.7 on Intel, so tomorrow's release will not be notarized on Intel. The ARM64 version will continue to be notarized.

The question is on Intel, without notarizing you will get a message about the app not being able to be checked for malware by Apple and require you to "Open Anyway" from the security dialog. It is an annoyance but a minor one in my opinion. Are users okay with the Intel versions not being notarized?

To continue to notarize the Intel versions we will need to increase the version requirements to 10.9. If I do this, I will continue to support 10.7 and 10.8 with not notarized White Star builds.

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by Moonchild » 2023-04-17, 23:00

To be clear: we (dbsoft and I) have discussed this and I have no strong feelings either way and am happy to leave it entirely up to the users.
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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by wicknix » 2023-04-18, 06:41

Glad to see Mac support reinstated. Personally i think the security dialog is a minor annoyance. I feel users of 10.7 / 10.8 would want official branding vs whitestar branding. I build my own, so it doesn't affect me either way. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by Goodydino » 2023-04-28, 21:07

I do not care one way or the other. "Open anyway" is a minor extra step and one only has to do it once for any given version.

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by dbsoft » 2023-05-02, 00:14

Well, it seems people don't have a strong opinion one way or the other... so I'll just keep things the status quo and only notarize the ARM versions. If people have a reason they want the Intel versions notarized, let me know and I'll revisit the subject in the future.

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by adarkhaired1 » 2023-05-17, 20:45

I tried the "Open Anyway" from the security dialog to get Pale Moon 32.2.0 to open but it would not open. I'm running macOS Catalina. Any advice would be helpful.

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by dbsoft » 2023-05-18, 23:13

adarkhaired1 wrote:
2023-05-17, 20:45
I tried the "Open Anyway" from the security dialog to get Pale Moon 32.2.0 to open but it would not open. I'm running macOS Catalina. Any advice would be helpful.
Is it giving any error? Like the crash dialog? This may be the second report from Catalina of a problem. I changed how the app is packaged on Intel in this version so not sure if this is a crash or an issue with the packaging.

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by wicknix » 2023-05-18, 23:50

Seems fine on 10.15 on my end with the official download.

Due note however that i'm using a patched Catalina for unsupported devices. Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by dbsoft » 2023-05-19, 00:37

Well on the off chance it is the packaging changes, I did a rebuild with the old packaging... I had been using different packaging on ARM to help the notarization process, in the latest version I used the new packaging on Intel too... so this build uses the old packaging:

https://dbsoft.org/palemoon/palemoon-32.2.0.intel64.dmg

Let me know if this one fixes the problem for those affected.

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by MacTerrassa » 2023-05-20, 20:41

For what it's worth: I got to know about your program because it's the only one that keeps releasing updates for my 10.11 system (although I also have 10.15 on another iMac).
Notarization is not bad in itself, but if it prevents you from offering support to systems that are easier for you without it, I would be very clear: either not activate it or keep two versions at the same time (three with the version for Apple chip). And I don't know if it will be feasible for a small team.

I understand that when support for a certain version of the system has to be dropped it should be for more than just a minor detail like that. I have seen cases where the reason for dropping support for everything prior to Catalina has simply been to support the dark theme. Most ridiculous to me. I understand that sometimes and for more reasons you have to do it. Not for minor things.

In addition, for example, it seems to me that this notarization is already causing problems. Or so it seems with the latest version. The official one doesn't work for me on 10.15 but the modified one without notarization does (or so I think).

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by dbsoft » 2023-05-20, 21:14

MacTerrassa wrote:
2023-05-20, 20:41
In addition, for example, it seems to me that this notarization is already causing problems. Or so it seems with the latest version. The official one doesn't work for me on 10.15 but the modified one without notarization does (or so I think).
I made basically 3 changes for notarization on ARM...

1) Added entitlements (this is largely for apps on the app store so it knows what the app does... but it does other things like prevent debugging)
The ARM versions technically could be distributed on the app store if desired
2) Switched to using a different method of creating the disk image ("create" vs "makehybrid")
This was because the "makehybrid" method created extended attributes that sometimes invalidated the code signature
3) Codesigned any binaries or dynamic libraries in the Resources subfolder.

If switching back to the old packaging solved your problem, I would like to know which of these changes is causing the problem so I can just avoid that specific one on Intel.

I would tend to think it is the entitlements that are causing it... but I need to test, would you be willing to try a few versions to determine which one is causing problems?

I am not experiencing the problem at all here so I can't tell.

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by dbsoft » 2023-05-21, 21:17

People experiencing the problem please try these two builds and tell me which ones work or don't work so I can figure out what part of the packaging is causing issues with some people:

https://dbsoft.org/palemoon/palemoon-ma ... ntel64.dmg
https://dbsoft.org/palemoon/palemoon-no ... ntel64.dmg

Thank you!

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by hipunk » 2023-07-28, 10:29

Release with existing 10.7 version requirements, without notarizing. (Extra step required to "Open Anyway" on each first run)

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Re: Notarization Poll

Unread post by dbsoft » 2023-07-30, 13:40

hipunk wrote:
2023-07-28, 10:29
Release with existing 10.7 version requirements, without notarizing. (Extra step required to "Open Anyway" on each first run)
Thanks for the input, but the poll ended months ago and that is the plan we went with. ;)

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