The Future...

Discussions for the Apple Mac OS builds of Pale Moon

Moderator: dbsoft

Forum rules
Important note:
The old Mac OS versions of Pale Moon were provided by various people and not official or in any way organized. Please make sure you check the date of topic threads to know if the topic is current or relevant! We are using this board for both old discussions and new development of Pale Moon on Mac.

Any specific bugs you find that don't have their own topic yet: please make a new topic; one bug per topic please to keep things organized.
dbsoft
Project Contributor
Project Contributor
Posts: 405
Joined: 2020-02-21, 17:35

The Future...

Unread post by dbsoft » 2021-03-10, 21:58

I plan to keep doing Pale Moon builds with my own branding going forward, and submit patches to the Pale Moon team. So while the main team may be discontinuing support there should still be Mac versions going forward.

KlarkKentThe3rd
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 556
Joined: 2018-04-20, 20:31

Re: The Future...

Unread post by KlarkKentThe3rd » 2021-03-10, 22:01

All the better for me.

(until I stop being a Mac user)

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35402
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: The Future...

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-03-10, 22:22

While you are of course free to maintain your own Mac-capable fork of UXP and/or Pale Moon we will not be further continuing any support for Mac builds ourselves and any Mac-specific patches will not be within our future scope.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

dbsoft
Project Contributor
Project Contributor
Posts: 405
Joined: 2020-02-21, 17:35

Re: The Future...

Unread post by dbsoft » 2021-03-10, 22:26

Up to you, but they will be there if you want them. :)

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: The Future...

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-11, 00:04

So how are you going to apply changes we make because as time goes on patches will get increasingly more difficult to just simply git apply.

Are you gonna provide all the relevant services like blocklist, Add-ons, and Sync too?

It seems extremely unlikely you will be able to replicate our entire operation given you couldn't even bring the build up to official status and have very limited time to do much of anything.

User avatar
Maverick
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 2021-03-11, 00:17

Re: The Future...

Unread post by Maverick » 2021-03-11, 00:25

@dbsoft -- I really appreciate your post. I do hope you will be able to continue producing Mac builds but I fear it will be a very difficult task.

Moonchild recently stated "...now would be the best time to fork as we'll be steadily removing Mac and MacOS-specific code from UXP as we go forward."
So it will not be long before you will not be easily able to use any new code written for Palemoon for your Mac build. (see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26381 )

But I do wish you all the best! I do hope you can pull it off.

dbsoft
Project Contributor
Project Contributor
Posts: 405
Joined: 2020-02-21, 17:35

Re: The Future...

Unread post by dbsoft » 2021-03-11, 04:50

Well, will see how it goes.... but worst case I had overtures from a couple other browsers hoping I would switch projects with this announcement... but will work on Pale Moon as long as I can... if it becomes too much of a problem I will probably switch over to working on one of the other browsers.

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: The Future...

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-11, 05:09

You aren't going to be working on Pale Moon though now are you?

dbsoft
Project Contributor
Project Contributor
Posts: 405
Joined: 2020-02-21, 17:35

Re: The Future...

Unread post by dbsoft » 2021-03-11, 05:18

Tobin you can stop posting at me, I will not respond to anything you say.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35402
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: The Future...

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-03-11, 05:43

It's a legitimate question.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: The Future...

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-11, 05:49

dbsoft wrote:
2021-03-11, 04:50
If it becomes too much of a problem I will probably switch over to working on one of the other browsers.
And here lies the core of the problem for years in regards to Macintosh.

dbsoft
Project Contributor
Project Contributor
Posts: 405
Joined: 2020-02-21, 17:35

Re: The Future...

Unread post by dbsoft » 2021-03-11, 05:58

What question?

User avatar
jobbautista9
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 780
Joined: 2020-11-03, 06:47
Location: Philippines
Contact:

Re: The Future...

Unread post by jobbautista9 » 2021-03-11, 05:59

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-03-11, 05:09
You aren't going to be working on Pale Moon though now are you?
Image

merry mimas

XUL add-ons developer. You can find a list of add-ons I manage at http://rw.rs/~job/software.html.

Mima avatar by 絵虎. Pixiv post: https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/15431817

Image

User avatar
athenian200
Contributing developer
Contributing developer
Posts: 1480
Joined: 2018-10-28, 19:56
Location: Georgia

Re: The Future...

Unread post by athenian200 » 2021-03-11, 07:45

I feel it would be better for everyone involved in the long-run if you didn't do this. My intuition is telling me that remaining involved unofficially to do a port like this is just going to cause drama and it would be better if you moved on, given the way things have gone. We've had a lot of problems with people involved with alternative operating systems (like Windows XP and OpenBSD) maintaining their forks apart from our official efforts, and I suspect your effort may present us with similar problems.

Overall, speaking for myself and not for anyone else, I feel like you trying to do this is going to be a waste of your time and ours, and that you would be better served using the time you would have used doing this working on something else that interests you. Try to look on the bright side, view this as you having freedom to stop worrying about the Mac builds and just go back to living your normal life, maybe study a subject you're interested in or find another project that captures your passion. Maybe even do something that's not browser-related at all that you feel needs to be done.

The thing is, and I hate coming right out and saying it... this project is so small and the community around it so tight-knit that I don't feel we can accommodate the needs of volunteers in the same way as a larger project with more levels of hierarchy can. We don't exactly have a human resources department, if you know what I mean. There's almost no way you could remain involved unofficially by creating your own fork or something without stepping on our toes, so to speak. Yes, technically it's open source and you have a "right" to do it, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Does that make sense?

I'm really trying to spare you a lot of needlessly wasted time, energy, and frustration. You're already contemplating the possibility that this will become a problem, and I think you're right to do so. I would strongly recommend against forking UXP or Pale Moon, and recommend that you instead go straight for whatever your backup plan was if that didn't work out. Going to college, learning a foreign language, reading a book, brushing up on your programming skills... etc.
"The Athenians, however, represent the unity of these opposites; in them, mind or spirit has emerged from the Theban subjectivity without losing itself in the Spartan objectivity of ethical life. With the Athenians, the rights of the State and of the individual found as perfect a union as was possible at all at the level of the Greek spirit." -- Hegel's philosophy of Mind

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35402
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: The Future...

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-03-11, 08:29

I honestly don't care what he wants to do or not wants to do. it's open source for a reason and if he thinks making a separate one-man fork of it for Mac users is something he wants to do then that's up to him.

It may be a glorious waste of time, sure, but it'll be his time to waste if he insists.

For the record, any separate project that results from the forking will have to be fully separate to avoid user confusion - this forum will not play host for any support or other communication surrounding it.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
moonbat
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 4942
Joined: 2015-12-09, 15:45
Contact:

Re: The Future...

Unread post by moonbat » 2021-03-11, 11:56

Moonchild wrote:
2021-03-11, 08:29
this forum will not play host for any support or other communication surrounding it.
Suggestion - lock this subforum and put the EOL announcement as a sticky on top for anyone who comes here in future.
"One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them and in the darkness BIND them."

Image
Linux Mint 21 Xfce x64 on HP i5-5200 laptop, 12 GB RAM.
AutoPageColor|PermissionsPlus|PMPlayer|Pure URL|RecordRewind|TextFX

User avatar
jobbautista9
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 780
Joined: 2020-11-03, 06:47
Location: Philippines
Contact:

Re: The Future...

Unread post by jobbautista9 » 2021-03-11, 12:05

Off-topic:
Might as well lock the Android forum while you're at it. :thumbup:
Image

merry mimas

XUL add-ons developer. You can find a list of add-ons I manage at http://rw.rs/~job/software.html.

Mima avatar by 絵虎. Pixiv post: https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/15431817

Image

New Tobin Paradigm

Re: The Future...

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2021-03-11, 12:11

The codebase is gonna be oh so clean once it is said and done. Macintosh being the special snowflake it is has an awful lot of specialized code for it and so many more conditionals vs Windows and Other *nix systems. Even accelerator keys have to be macified cause special snowflake keyboard layout.

Just do a search for XP_MACOSX and MOZ_WIDGET_COCOA just for starters on xref.

User avatar
jobbautista9
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 780
Joined: 2020-11-03, 06:47
Location: Philippines
Contact:

Re: The Future...

Unread post by jobbautista9 » 2021-03-11, 12:18

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2021-03-11, 12:11
special snowflake keyboard layout.
Off-topic:
That and their weird touchpad on their laptops are the reasons why I never bothered buying a Mac at all. Even if I came from a *nix background, I have to relearn how to use the keyboard and mouse. I'd rather use a Windows machine than a Mac.
Image

merry mimas

XUL add-ons developer. You can find a list of add-ons I manage at http://rw.rs/~job/software.html.

Mima avatar by 絵虎. Pixiv post: https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/15431817

Image

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35402
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: The Future...

Unread post by Moonchild » 2021-03-11, 12:54

moonbat wrote:
2021-03-11, 11:56
Moonchild wrote:
2021-03-11, 08:29
this forum will not play host for any support or other communication surrounding it.
Suggestion - lock this subforum and put the EOL announcement as a sticky on top for anyone who comes here in future.
Maybe later. It's not like the Mac builds suddenly stop working and for those still on current ad hoc builds it's nice to have a board.
It's always better to initially make a request for people to be responsible than to immediately enforce it at the expense of other things. Yes I know it goes against what seems to be common practice these days where the use of brain matter is shunned.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Locked