Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

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avalos
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Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by avalos » 2020-11-20, 19:28

This is just a minor issue, but it's still annoying to have that huge moon among the smaller icons, some of which now have Big Sur style. Just slightly smaller! Probably not a priority right now, but it's still annoying.
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Huge Pale Moon icon in macOS Big Sur dock
Huge Pale Moon icon in macOS Big Sur dock

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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by adesh » 2020-11-21, 07:53

"Browser" (previously New Moon) branding icon is the right size.

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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-11-21, 10:02

Macintosh builds are now using our official "golden" beta branding and as such that is the icon and we are not going to produce special Macintosh dock icons for reasons of brand identity as well as the broad range of supported versions of the target operating system.

It would make little stylisic sense to bother with whatever the latest anti-style Apple is pushing these days when running on an older version. Not even sure you can differentate program icons from dock icons in the first place.

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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by avalos » 2020-11-22, 08:00

I mean, the Big Sur style was just a suggestion, the real issue here is the size of the icon. Since .icns file is exclusive to macOS, it wouldn't be difficult at all to just reduce the size of the icon a slight amount. I'm not talking about engineering an advanced new dynamic logo for the Apple® Macintosh™ Operating™ System™ platform, following all of existing, state-of-the-art, advanced Apple® human® guidelines™.

Actually, it's not even reducing the size, is adding a small padding around the Official® Golden™ Pale™ Moon® Browser™® Beta®® Branding®®®™ Logo™®. Site and contents © 2009-2020 Moonchild Productions - All rights reserved. Pale Moon is subject to the following licensing.

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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by Moonchild » 2020-11-22, 11:19

.... aaaand if you're going to be snarky about it, then nothing will be done, period.
Keep in mind that this beta branding, while currently being used for Mac only, is in essence cross-platform. Changing the size for one would require/resulting in changing the size for all of them. Adding padding to the logo and scaling it down as a result just because the general style on Big Sur is to waste limited icon space with whitespace borders IMHO says more about the design of the dock than the design of the icons.
I prefer to have maximum detail in icons, meaning the visual elements will fill the icons to their edge. Any spacing of placement of icons is up to the O.S. they are used on.
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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-11-22, 11:56

I don't see anything being done even if he wasn't snarky about it since this is the brand identity not an Apple program. Any sort of OS Integration MUST be balanced with the look, feel, and brand identity of the product.

NOW for the consequences of being snarky, maybe you should just move on because we aren't going to cater to nor tolerate your continued snowflakeism. You always have a choice: You can take it.. or leave it. But please subject your Apple elitism on someone else.
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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by vannilla » 2020-11-22, 14:47

Off-topic:
This conversation made me curious about something (I don't have any Apple device, so I don't know): do icons have physical white space inside them? From what I gathered from Moochild's reply, the empty margin is defined in the PNG (or whatever formati is used) itself, and is not placed by the docker.
If that's the case then that's some really junk design when all you have to do is have the docker scale the icons accordingly.

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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2020-11-22, 14:52

Well historically apple icons had drop shadows cause Aqua and elegant pseudo-realistic design. As their design sense went more flat and bland so did the shadows and eventually it seems they don't have shadows but the icons for various applications seem to retain the same proportions so a shadowless margin.

Pale Moon's icon (except maybe the original) never had a drop shadow for the application icon. But it does seem that the dock used to accommodate that a lot better than it does now. Either or doesn't matter because the branding is the branding.
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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by Moonchild » 2020-11-22, 14:57

vannilla wrote:
2020-11-22, 14:47
do icons have physical white space inside them?
Icons are compound files of a collection of various sizes of raster images (bitmaps). They don't have any inherent whitespace padding or margins. If there are margins it is because the icon designer specifically put them in as whitespace around visual elements, but like I said before it is up to the surrounding elements/OS/what not to provide spacing in visual design. So yes, the docker's visual design is very poor in that respect, and Apple should have made its Big Sur "own" icons larger and space-filling instead of requiring all 3rd party software vendors to add arbitrary spacing inside of their icons to make it visually consistent.
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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by Lootyhoof » 2020-11-22, 16:02

Apple wants developers to use a very particular way of displaying their icons. They want them to (aside from staying within the standard icon sizes) only have the icon itself fit within a subset of the space, so that app icons (obviously not including Pale Moon, as it'd be irrelevant) can include "tools" (for example, a pencil for a notepad app) on top of the normal icon.

See for example below (source):
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Apple being Apple wants it so every app looks the same icon-wise.

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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by Moonchild » 2020-11-22, 16:41

There is no reason they can't do this with their O.S. code, as in displaying the "icon grid" at the desired size and not demanding that individual developers jump through hoops for their benefit on every icon produced.
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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by RealityRipple » 2020-11-22, 22:42

You're talking about a company that charges developers a hundred dollars a year for the privilege of writing for their platform. Why would they do anything for you in return?

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Re: Icon should be smaller, maybe even Big Sur style

Post by Goodydino » 2020-11-23, 20:45

If you do not like the icon you could change it yourself and put it into the app package. Right-click the app icon and choose "Show Package Contents", then go to Contents > Resources, which is where the icon is stored. Alternatively, you could do the "Get Info" trick. Cmd-i gets you the info window, and you can drag another icon into the upper left corner to replace the one the app uses normally.

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