Modern Pale Moon SSE Build for Linux -Debian 10 Buster

[RandLin]

When I resurrected my 19(?) year old Athlon XP computer, I discovered not a lot of web browsers worked.
Debian's Firefox ESR worked (slow ), Epiphany worked (faster but still slow, not much for extensions), and Dillo (outdated )

SO, after finding out that Pale Moon once had SSE builds, I decided to try to build it without sse2 for personal use. It turned out much easier than expected!
My builds: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:RandLin:Palemoon_SSE-build/PaleMoon-sse
There is supposed to be a user friendly download link, but it only states No Data?! So install instructions attached.

Install Twilight SSE.txt

notes: all credits to Steve Pusser for his Debian packages. I simply modified the mozconfig and rebuilt it.
I disabled official branding.
I may not get to updating Twilight (not official Pale Moon) all the time but I will try.
I added more optimizations.

Thanks Moonchild and all the contributors for such a great, fast browser!
P.S. I'm using Twilight on Athlon XP (no sse2) on Debian 10 Linux right now!

[New Tobin Paradigm]

And who gave you permission to refer to this as Pale Moon in your repo regardless of generic branding?

[RandLin]

Oops that's what I forgot to ask. Should I remove Pale Moon?
Sorry. It's one of my first projects and I'm still learning.

[jobbautista9]

Contributed builds should be approved first by Moonchild before they can use official branding, i.e. the Pale Moon name and logo. See point 10 of the Redistribution License.

So yeah, you will have to remove the Pale Moon name and logo from your build for now and use a different branding. As for if it will get approved or not, I don't know if Moonchild will approve any new SSE builds right now, he gets to decide that. But I suggest you provide your mozconfig if you want a better chance of getting your build approved.

[RandLin]

I'd like to thank you all for reminding me before I got any further. It is a lot easier to fix it now. I am having a hard time understanding Debian packaging documentation so forgive me if I sound like an idiot.
I'm renaming it Twilight SSE -I really like that name.
Do I need to rename the Debian package and executable? I'm still learning and haven't totally figured out how to do that part...
Also because of my slow internet I can't modify the whole source and re-upload, but I believe you can make patches... But how?!
I've got a new url without Pale Moon in the name here: REMOVED UNTIL I FIX IT and I will delete the old one and update my install instructions as soon as the new one finishes building.

Thanks and happy weekend!

[New Tobin Paradigm]

If your processor doesn't have SSE2 instructions it is very likely it is gonna run like shit .. even more than normal on supersize js heavy webaaaaapps. The modern web just isn't gonna work well on computers from 19 years ago. And then those morons such as yourself are gonna come here and ask for support unless you COMPLETELY fork it and if you completely fork it you aren't ALLOWED to access product specific services LIKE The Add-ons Site or Sync.

It is my express opinion and judgement is you should be stopped from being yet another person trying to dilute the brand and userbase with insanity and false attribution. The sheer presumption on your part is precisely why all these restrictions are in place. You have rights regarding the source code but you don't have rights to the brand direct or indirect nor the services or to use this forum to promote something that has no business existing in the first place.

Your first mistake was to DO first when you should have ASKED first. That alone has already put you in a bad position. So thanks for contributing to future problems WE have to deal with.

[RandLin]

If your processor doesn't have SSE2 instructions it is very likely it is gonna run like shit .. even more than normal on supersize js heavy webaaaaapps. The modern web just isn't gonna work well on computers from 19 years ago. And then those morons such as yourself are gonna come here and ask for support unless you COMPLETELY fork it and if you completely fork it you aren't ALLOWED to access product specific services LIKE The Add-ons Site or Sync.

It is my express opinion and judgement is you should be stopped from being yet another person trying to dilute the brand and userbase with insanity and false attribution. The sheer presumption on your part is precisely why all these restrictions are in place. You have rights regarding the source code but you don't have rights to the brand direct or indirect nor the services or to use this forum to promote something that has no business existing in the first place.

I'm sorry if I seem like a drag. I know my build is usable (I'm using it) and I know its stupid. But it does work well (the best) and attribute it entirely to all your hard work.
In no way am I trying to dilute the brand and I was considering not releasing it at all. I use it for weather maps (wunderground.com, weather.gov)), web surfing (youtube + anything really) and its very usable - once you remember its 1 GHz! If you wish I will make it private but I was just trying to help others with what I did. And there is no need for a fork -just add -mno-sse2 to the mozconfig and build (and remove branding). All the add-ons I tried work and it's stable. Pale Moon (Twilight SSE) is 5X faster than Firefox ESR.
And I apologize for causing you a headache and wasting your valuable time.

[RandLin]

Oh and I'm really sorry for accidentally using your trademark -I got carried away because it actually worked.

And I was never going to ask for support outside of removing your trademarks and copyrights from my build properly.
After all it is TOTALLY your rights!
No hard feelings please? I know all about "morons".

[New Tobin Paradigm]

Well by making it public you have caused these problems that will materialize in short order. You could have just kept it to your self and did whatever you wanted but now.. You have involved others without a fucking clue of what you are doing or what damage you are causing nor how to rectify the situation. THIS is why I am pissed at you. Your irresponsible and arrogant presumption has added another bunch of shit ontop of everything else that has to be dealt with and I have to come down on you exceedingly harsh for it. I of course will bear the brunt of bullshit resulting from it as you go fuck with your 19 year old computer in blissful ignorance.

[Moonchild]

How about cooling that temper a little (again), Tobin. You're right in essence but there's no reason to get super-pissed. Not unless the OP ignores our directives (which they clearly seem to be adhering to).

About the distribution:

I'm honestly not at all tickled myself about another effort to target non-SSE2 systems that are all, without exception, archaic museum pieces at this point in time. Seriously, you can't expect it to be useful in any way on sites that ask for the capabilities of Pale Moon as a browser, and Tobin is right that you should not publish/have published anything that refers to Pale Moon or implies any form of official support or relationship in any way.

Of course you are free to experiment, use it for your own use, and make a full hard fork of it but please do not retain Pale Moon as a name, do not use our services (add-ons site, sync, blocklist and dynamic SSUAO service, J-PAKE server, geolocation, etc.). There are (free) drop-ins you can use for some of them or that can easily be hosted on a webserver of your own.
Otherwise I wish you all the best of luck. Be aware that fallback code for supporting ancient hardware may fall away without notice.

[RandLin]

How about cooling that temper a little (again), Tobin. You're right in essence but there's no reason to get super-pissed. Not unless the OP ignores our directives (which they clearly seem to be adhering to).

About the distribution:

I'm honestly not at all tickled myself about another effort to target non-SSE2 systems that are all, without exception, archaic museum pieces at this point in time. Seriously, you can't expect it to be useful in any way on sites that ask for the capabilities of Pale Moon as a browser, and Tobin is right that you should not publish/have published anything that refers to Pale Moon or implies any form of official support or relationship in any way.

Of course you are free to experiment, use it for your own use, and make a full hard fork of it but please do not retain Pale Moon as a name, do not use our services (add-ons site, sync, blocklist and dynamic SSUAO service, J-PAKE server, geolocation, etc.). There are (free) drop-ins you can use for some of them or that can easily be hosted on a webserver of your own.
Otherwise I wish you all the best of luck. Be aware that fallback code for supporting ancient hardware may fall away without notice.

Thank you very much. I admire your work. And if Pale Moon stops supporting SSE, I will discontinue the build. I had no intentions of modifying add-ons or forking Pale Moon as they work out of the box. However I will see what services I can use of my own or disable or I will simply make Twilight SSE private. I did notice a nice speed-up on 29.2.0.
As soon as I disable the services or use my own server I will update the urls. For now I will remove them.

[Moonchild]

Thanks for your cooperation.

[New Tobin Paradigm]

How about cooling that temper a little (again), Tobin.

You're right, I am sorry for most of my tone. Most.

[Moonbird]

There is some good PR possible with this case.

"Look! Pale Moon is that efficent, it even runs on scrap hardware!"

You're underestimating what can be done with a 19-year-old computer. I'd say that 96 % of the websites will do without problems. And all the others are poorly designed anyways...

[New Tobin Paradigm]

It is completely unreasonable to expect us to support, test, and account for hardware and systems more than 5-7 years old let alone nearly 20.

That is the simple truth here. Not just because of the technical burdon it would impose but also because that is simply not the kind of world we live in anymore.

[Moonchild]

"Look! Pale Moon is that efficent, it even runs on scrap hardware!"

Until it doesn't, and guess who will be called a liar? (so much for PR)

[New Tobin Paradigm]

I explained some contributing factors that apply here as well in part: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26787#p214614

Maybe one day I will do a full on write up but I think those who occasionally dabble in objective critical thinking can get a feel for what and why I am talking about.

[Lunokhod]

I don't think that's true, old HW doesn't always degrade, most electronics works or doesn't work. If you clean the fans and replace the heatsink compound then, especially if you are dealing with a well made item, it should work as well as ever. Also you can swap in new parts, but it won't suddenly start running better in general. Not like an engine with moving parts that slowly wear (or donkeys etc that get old and don't go as fast ). It's possible to pick up a few non-terminal issues, like capacitors changing values over time, but generally things are either good, open circuit or short circuit. (Or intermittent which is mostly still not going to degrade performance, just annoy you.) In fact the likelihood of failure in electronics is higher in the first year or two of use than later, when the weaker units have already gone.
A lot of the performance problem is lack of support in the entire OS and web code for older hardware. As support for new computers is added, the old ones get slowly forgotten. It's mostly a software thing, but not just the browser, things like the compiler, kernel, graphics stack, desktop and so on.
Earlier this year using a P3 I found that Firefox ESR 45 (I think the last version to support P3) worked better on more sites than the last available Pale Moon SSE build, which was newer. I don't think this was the case when it was current because I seem to remember SSE Pale Moon's working well at the time of release. So I suspect websites in general may have some residual support for the last non SSE2 Firefox built in to them. I think this project could be interesting to try though.

[Moonchild]

I'm sorry but Planned Obsolescence is very much a real thing and has been for a very long time (back to the first lightbulbs, in fact).
This is why there is a world of difference between enterprise grade computer hardware and consumer grade, for example, but even enterprise hardware isn't entirely dodging that bullet everywhere. And portable devices? Oh you can bet your ass that they have a very specific limited lifespan.

[WiseWolf]

Side note, planned obsolescence can very much be a bad thing most of the time, unless it is actually a no choice thing not due to greed or incompetence.

On a related note though, If a computer doesn't support SSE2 I imagine it isn't supported by some BSDs (for political reasons) or your hardware is really, really old.



Even laptops with a 2nd gen processor can use palemoon or basilisk, trust me I have done so before. :0

Anything that is 32 bit though, I imagine support will be dropped eventually whether we like it or not. In my case, I don't use any 32 bit hardware anymore...

I would actually say that leaving 32 bit support in is good for people who want to build from source, but at some point I feel certain you plan to drop it in all your browsers. Or am I wrong?

I tend to think I might be right, anywho, my two cents there.