Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

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Sajadi
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Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Sajadi » 2019-05-25, 14:40

No more words needed.. first, make a feature optional... and you have the best reasoning afterwards.. no one use it, so you can remove it at whatever point in time you want.

"Firefox 69: userChrome.css and userContent.css disabled by default"
https://www.ghacks.net/2019/05/24/firef ... by-default

Starts to be the final blow against the rest of Mozilla's remaining vocal power-user group - the one's who still have decided to keep using Firefox in the recent years even after all what happened since Australis and have not yet left the sinking (Chrome imitation) ship!

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Michaell » 2019-05-25, 17:43

I already gave up on anything Quantum/57+, and that includes new TB too. There have been so many last straws that I've lost count. The webrequest issue was it for me. This CSS one was speculated to be in the works way back when the change to webextensions was still in the works.

And also the whole CSP thing makes no sense to me. From what I read when it started, it is implemented server side. So, how can we depend on that for blocking since the websites are the ones pushing the bad stuff on us. Kind of reminiscent of the DNT header.

Anyway, I just don't have the will to fight Mozilla for use of their browser. I did try WF 56 again because Basilisk is chomping up a lot of memory and CPU. But WF is the same on memory (not sure about CPU). So, for better or worse, not much else worth using other than PM. (I am occasionally using Ungoogled Chromium, but not sure how much to trust it.)
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New Tobin Paradigm

Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-05-25, 18:31

Remember that Pale Moon, while the defacto flagship, isn't the only web client or application on the Unified XUL Platform ;)

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Isengrim » 2019-05-25, 18:34

They will apparently detect if the user has those files in place and will keep the pref enabled for those who use it. So that's something.

I just fail to see how checking for the existence of two extra files has a noticeable impact on performance.
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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Sajadi » 2019-05-25, 18:43

Isengrim wrote:
2019-05-25, 18:34
They will apparently detect if the user has those files in place and will keep the pref enabled for those who use it. So that's something.

I just fail to see how checking for the existence of two extra files has a noticeable impact on performance.
I would not count that Mozilla said the truth in this matter. It is just another case of Mozilla's typical double-talk.

In reality there is only one big benefit which this will give Mozilla - They always love to kill (customization) features which are not used by "the majority" or which they see as "legacy" (includes also IRC - i believe there was the same reasoning for Mozilla's wish to phase their IRC server out) or are "hindering their attempts to be mainstream - Chrome users - compatible" :lol:

If only a minority has it activated - the one group who actually uses this feature and the rest of the user have it deactivated out of the box - the more easy it is for Mozilla to find an excuse to finally get rid of it. If that should still fail, they can always use "security" as "backup weapon analogy" against both.

In the end... Mozilla has fully turned from a pro-features and pro-choice developer who wanted to be unique - to just a lame defender of more conformity and generic mainstream. Even the Vivaldi guys have more spirit and more respect of power users and their needs compared to Mozilla these days. Which makes it even more sad.

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-05-25, 19:33

Mozilla is the token good guy for those who rail against big corps.. They are "real" open source unlike the chrome browsers of which only Brave shares their specific code.. and when all the corps agree they can always claim options even when someone points out that they are all the same because they are all Chrome.. Enter Mozilla.. aka The Exact Same.

The Exact Same is your last ditch fake choice. Except, Mozilla is a Corporation too.. Actually it is worse than the others because they have their tax shelter foundation and it is difficult to know where one thing ends and another begins.. All their statements are lies even when they are true and sometimes they are BOTH and NEITHER at the same time.. Least with Google, Microsoft, Apple you know in the end they don't give a shit.. With Mozilla, they talk a good game and exploit a history which doesn't apply to their current form and despite it all being as clear as glass.. Most people still can't see through it.

The Exact Same is more dangerous than ever.

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by billmcct » 2019-05-25, 20:59

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
2019-05-25, 19:33
Mozilla is the token good guy for those who rail against big corps... With Mozilla, they talk a good game and exploit a history which doesn't apply to their current form and despite it all being as clear as glass... Most people still can't see through it.

The Exact Same is more dangerous than ever.
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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by John connor » 2019-05-26, 02:37

The organization states that not having to look for the two files on startup improves the start-up performance of the Firefox browser.
Seriously? With everyone using an SSD in one form or another I find this very hard to believe. And I can load PM or FF withen a second.

Just more bullcrap to add to the Firefox pile.

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-05-26, 08:52

F22 Simpilot wrote:
2019-05-26, 02:37
Seriously? With everyone using an SSD in one form or another I find this very hard to believe. And I can load PM or FF withen a second.
But they have startup telemetry to prove it! I'm sure they consistently shave off some ms from their startup time by not loading and processing these files.
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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-05-26, 09:20

Trust me, I know how startup time is important to some people.

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Sajadi » 2019-05-26, 10:57

Moonchild wrote:
2019-05-26, 08:52
But they have startup telemetry to prove it! I'm sure they consistently shave off some ms from their startup time by not loading and processing these files.
Which would be even more dishonest double-talk delivered by Mozilla - Pale Moon opens almost instantly here on my SSD - and Mozilla is worried that 2 little files are able to cripple their "new glittering ultra speed Quantum versions" which - as Mozilla always loves to toss around "are faster than light compared to all other versions before"?

What do they expect, that the browser literally is opening already as soon as the user starts to think to click the browser button? :lol: What for a goal is it what Mozilla wants to reach.... telepathy - a deep mental link between the start-up routine and the user? :lol:

It is really incredible that people are falling for all of Mozilla's lies and even are applauding them! And people actually are complaining when Mozilla is criticized - just because they still can be considered Open Source/foss. What is more likely is that Mozilla is, based on their state of existence right now - they are the most dishonest and the least respectable developer out there... as actually - as it was already said... that with Google and company you know what to expect, while Mozilla hides always behind the facade of the honest guys and the protectors of the open web - which is just another big lie in the end...

If they would face REAL economy - they would have gone already bankrupt or at least all their leaders would have been replaced against someone else - Mozilla hides inside their ivory tower and the only reason why they are still around... is.. because they have been sponsored by Google... for alibi antitrust reasoning :roll:

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by adisib » 2019-05-26, 17:18

I don't get all the hoopla over this change. Anyone who knows Mozilla well enough to know that this is an indication of future removal of this functionality should know them well enough to know that its removal was inevitable before they made this change. As for the change itself, it seems quite reasonable to me. Most people don't use userChrome and userContent, so might as well give them the tiny win, and people who do use it are advanced users who should have no trouble finding the advanced pref to enable it.

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-05-27, 01:28

adisib wrote:
2019-05-26, 17:18
Most people don't use userChrome and userContent, so might as well give them the tiny win, and people who do use it are advanced users who should have no trouble finding the advanced pref to enable it.
But we've seen this progression in the past (many times over), for features that are actually in use and essential for a percentage of people.
Making the ability hidden means there's no exposure to it. No exposure or "it not working" (out-of-the-box) means fewer people will be using the flexibility of these css files, which will show in their telemetry -- and after an unspecified amount of time this is then turned into a removal because "the low usage doesn't justify the cost of maintaining the feature". Whether the feature is, in practice, 0-maintenance or not doesn't really matter in that case. This will only affect the "advanced users" who will go from "it works" to "I can still make it work" to "I can't use it any more".
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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-05-27, 04:49

Sounds like Firefox from version 4 on to me.

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Utnapishtim » 2019-06-02, 20:46

Moonchild wrote:
2019-05-27, 01:28
But we've seen this progression in the past (many times over), for features that are actually in use and essential for a percentage of people.
Making the ability hidden means there's no exposure to it. No exposure or "it not working" (out-of-the-box) means fewer people will be using the flexibility of these css files, which will show in their telemetry -- and after an unspecified amount of time this is then turned into a removal because "the low usage doesn't justify the cost of maintaining the feature". Whether the feature is, in practice, 0-maintenance or not doesn't really matter in that case. This will only affect the "advanced users" who will go from "it works" to "I can still make it work" to "I can't use it any more".
Made me think of https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost-the-api-war/. The sad thing is that I bet all the execs at Google have read this article, but they know they're immune to the consequences (for now) since they're a monopoly

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Lootyhoof » 2019-06-03, 21:15

They've been planning to remove these for a long while - certainly around the time v57 happened there were talks I believe. As they'll be removing XUL from the UI sooner or later it only makes sense to do it while still on XUL to make the change less painful when it does happen. Given that their Browser.html project was ultimately cancelled it'll be interesting to see what happens there.

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by John connor » 2019-06-04, 11:14

Looks like a long list of hosts file entries would be in order if one were to use FF. And if you use a ton of hosts entries, I read that turning off the DNS cache service helps with that, albeit breaks DNS in a way I guess, but not really much of a problem. I always had it off to help mitigate DNS cache poisoning anyway.

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-06-04, 11:30

F22 Simpilot wrote:
2019-06-04, 11:14
I always had it off to help mitigate DNS cache poisoning anyway.
It's a good thing then that Pale Moon uses its own internal DNS cache or you'd have a slow internet experience ;)
Poisoning is only an issue if you are using a shared cache, by the way. Switching off your workstation DNS cache won't help with that at all, neither will it do anything related to the size of your hosts file, since that will be done before DNS is even triggered in the O.S.
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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by John connor » 2019-06-04, 11:37

I had it off in the laptop while using public WIFI.

I've read turning off the DNS cache service helps with speed or errors (can't remember now) with very large hosts file entries.

When I had the service off I never had any Internet trouble.

I clear cache and cookies at exit. Is that DNS cache cleared as well?

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Re: Mozilla and it's war against customization - seems the final round has started

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-06-04, 15:46

The DNS cache in the browser is short-lived caching only.

What you have read is wholly incorrect. See above.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

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