Pale Moon forum

I keep hearing of people here as well as on the Mozilla boards having 200, 500, 1000 tabs open at a time. What is it that you browse simultaneously or need to keep open for so long? For me, 20 tabs is about 10 too many, I keep closing them and reusing existing ones. About the only time I've pinned/locked a tab is for Gmail.

The point?
People work differently. Is there more that needs to be said?

And obviously, with that many tabs, it's porn .

In the past, I liked to start with clean/empty browser, no tabs at all. If I wanted to keep something for later, I bookmarked it. But it didn't really work well, because bookmarks are somehow hidden, out of sight.

Then I tried to keep that interesting tab or two open, instead of bookmarking them, and I found out that it's highly convenient. Next time I open the browser, there are right in front of me and I won't forget about them. So I started (ab)using tabs as short-time bookmarks. If I want to save something for later, and later means long time in future, it goes to bookmarks, but if later is in few hours or days, I simply keep the tab open. And it works great for me. Especially with Pale Moon's ability to show preview of all tabs.

Downside is that sometimes it doesn't go as planned. I want to get to something in a day or two, but it won't happen for another month. So the number of open tabs keeps growing. Performance wise it's not a problem, because they are not loaded automatically when browser starts. Only navigation suffers, up to 100-150 tabs it's ok, but previews are getting too small with more, and there's simply too many of them.

I book mark them in organized directories. The more frequently accessed sites will go onto the bookmark bar.

Sometimes if I'm researching something I can use multiple tabs all at once, in which tree style tabs is very helpful. Keeping open so many tabs in your browser that you break the point of the simple default work flow, you might as well use something that brings in more functionality such as tree style tabs. The default work flow of most web browsers (Vivaldi or qutebrowser being a rare exception) isn't targeted for power users, but for really basic use.

I've seen people that keep hundreds of tabs open in their browsers. They also often have a cluttered desktop with so many shortcuts that they overlap, poor file / directory structures for keeping their data (typically everything thrown into either their user home directory, Downloads or Documents), they're frequently calling in about low inbox space, and keep multiple applications open that the swap partition is always under use. I say these people get what they deserve. If you choose to be this inept by refusing to learn your environment, then you deserve the consequences.

This is my response to these 100+ tab users.. Do you also have 100+ word documents open in Microsoft Word or 100+ spreadsheets open in Excel.. How about 100+ psd files open in Photoshop. No? Then why do you think having more than a couple dozen tabs is a good idea?

It is my personal opinion that people simply abuse the tabbar or don't know any better.. If this was still Windows 98 and Netscape 4 would someone have 100+ dedicated windows open (remember no taskbar grouping of windows either) if ram was no object? I really doubt it. Sure there would be some crazy wackjob who did but everyone else? No way.

I guess having hundreds of tabs open is why TMP and TST exist - to better organize all your open tabs?

I also don't understand this workflow, but I'm genuinely curious to hear from someone who uses it reasons why they prefer it over using bookmarks.

Could be interesting. Don't let my personal opinions prevent anyone from sharing. You might achieve something very rare.. Changing my mind.

And that's the beauty of Tab Groups 0.4 (Panorama) – organizing related work subjects / topics in (searchable) graphic isolation that minimizes tab bar clutter. Less arcane than TST which IMO still doesn't provide much structure to what ends up being an endless cascade of semi-related tabs. Thanks again to recent efforts of Ketmar, WouterK, SpockFan02 and wolfbeast in patching functionality back to 28.0. which otherwise would have been a major inhibition to leaving 27.9.4 behind.

For anyone inclined to keep more than 10-20 tabs open for repetitive access, try it, you'll like it.

Actually, Tab Groups (Panorama) does not help very much, because it just hides tabs in inactive groups from the tab bar. And even if their content is unloaded, Pale Moon still creates docshell/browser objects for each such tab, and all this consumes memory and affects the startup and running performance. That's why I replaced tab groups for visual bookmarks some time ago.

therube wrote:The point?
People work differently. Is there more that needs to be said?

And obviously, with that many tabs, it's porn .

Not being judgemental - I was trying to understand the use case. Also because I see this on the one hand and others grumbling about memory usage and speed (mostly about Firefox, not necessarily about PM), so wondered if there's any overlap.

Sob__ wrote:In the past, I liked to start with clean/empty browser, no tabs at all. If I wanted to keep something for later, I bookmarked it. But it didn't really work well, because bookmarks are somehow hidden, out of sight.

But you can always use the addressbar to simultaneously query both bookmarks and history.

EMH_Mark_I wrote:I book mark them in organized directories. The more frequently accessed sites will go onto the bookmark bar.

This is what I used to do,except with del.icio.us until they started flaking out. They had a nifty extension that integrated with bookmarks, alas, they've been flushed down the drain now.

EMH_Mark_I wrote:I've seen people that keep hundreds of tabs open in their browsers. They also often have a cluttered desktop with so many shortcuts that they overlap, poor file / directory structures for keeping their data (typically everything thrown into either their user home directory, Downloads or Documents), they're frequently calling in about low inbox space, and keep multiple applications open that the swap partition is always under use. I say these people get what they deserve. If you choose to be this inept by refusing to learn your environment, then you deserve the consequences.

Couldn't agree more. Microsoft has provided neat locations for keeping your personal files separate (My Documents) since Windows '98, and in 7 they let you collate multiple folder locations into a library, but people continue to clutter the desktop and then blame Windows for being slow. And now that mobiles have replaced regular PCs in daily usage for the rubes, they now install all kinds of crapware (like it wasn't preloaded already) on their cheapass sub $100 Androids, then switch to an iPhone and go "aNdrOiD sUCkS".

JustOff wrote:Actually, Tab Groups (Panorama) does not help very much, because it just hides tabs in inactive groups from the tab bar. And even if their content is unloaded, Pale Moon still creates docshell/browser objects for each such tab, and all this consumes memory and affects the startup and running performance. That's why I replaced tab groups for visual bookmarks some time ago.

I haven't experienced any noticeable adverse memory effects with 8-10 groups consisting of 2-10 tabs myself, but I always respect your technical skills and opinions. Could you provide a link to the visual bookmark addon you're referring to as there are several listed on AMO?

CraigPD wrote:Could you provide a link to the visual bookmark addon you're referring to as there are several listed on AMO?

I tried many such add-ons, but to meet my own needs I had to create one myself (more images on AMO/ATN).

My approach to grouping tabs is to use separate profiles, and therefore separate windows. I have over 20 profiles, of which 5 or 6 are open permanently, with maybe 15 open tabs. I have separate profiles for each forum. Keeping tabs permanently open is really useful for very active threads. E.g. a weather forum with a thread tracking an incoming winter storm.

• you go to bed at night, wake up in the morning, and check in
• there are now 10 pages in the thread
• where was I in the thread last night?
• start at page 7; do the messages look familiar?
  • if yes, go to page 8
  • if no go to page 6
  • etc, etc

If I had left the tab open

• I see that message 127 or whatever was the last message in the thread
• refresh the tab {CTRL}{R}
• pick up where I left off, message 128 or whatever+1

A couple of tangential notes

1. using separate profiles for each forum prevents 3rd-party cookies from matching between forums
2. I run linux, so if memory usage by multiple profiles becomes an issue, I can freeze individual processes. Each open profile is a separate process.

I don't know that it is "use case".
It is more how one is able to process data.
Hi. My name is Steven. I am a tab-a-holic. (And a window-a-holic.) [Shh... & an alch-o-holic. Not really.]
I go out on tangents, often.
Tangents lead to windows.
Different windows lead to multiple tabs in each window.
I can process where things are in each window, where windows are relative to one another...

(When that breaks down, my work-able chaotic state simply turns into KAOS.)

Days of old, I used to bookmark. Mostly never in folders, simply date order.
Today, I almost never bookmark, as what I'm interested in, I have open in tabs.

Some tabs/windows, I frequent regularly.
Other less so, but they are my reminders that I do want to follow up on something.
(If they were not there, I'd most likely not return to said items - until some tangent happened to lead me back to it.)

I rely on the awesome bar, a lot. It too has removed much reliance on bookmarks.


Of course tabs/windows use memory, take more time to load (from Session Restore), but all in all, it is no big deal - unless you're pushing "limits". In 32-bit days "limits" start to hit ~2 GB or RAM usage (regardless of some theoretical 4 GB max). And of course you also cannot have all tabs loaded at once & need at the very least an ad blocker (if not NoScript).

With 64-bit browsers, in Windows at least, IMO, & again regardless of theoreticals you are still apt to run into "issues", performance degradations, for various reasons. (Linux users, from what I gather, seems to be less affected.)


Current PM issues are most likely not any what associated with huge tab usage.


(Over time, various Mozilla browser versions have worked better/worse with large numbers of tabs.)

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:Do you also have 100+ word documents open in Microsoft Word or 100+ spreadsheets open in Excel..

It's different. To have 100+ open documents in Word, I'd need to open 100+ files. I don't need to do anything to have 100+ open tabs in browser, they are carried automatically from previous browsing session. Plus if I'd be opening that many files, I'd get the feel how it uses CPU and eats up memory. In browser, not loaded tabs feel more like harmless links or something, they just sit there and do nothing. If they take some extra memory, it can't be much and I don't really care, my PM never takes too much of it anyway. I don't actively monitor it, but the top usage I've seen for PM was I think around 4GB, usually not even half of that. It's nothing in 2018. I don't know how much extra CPU usage it needs, my guess would be close to none (with not loaded tabs). You know more about it than me, so correct me if I'm wrong. With loaded tabs it's different, there can be some scripts running in background and on some sites it shows.

I admit to abuse of tabs, they were not made for this. I'd happily switch to something more proper, but I haven't found anything this convenient yet. Bookmarks are good for long time storage. I take my time to put things in right folders, to find them half a year later, and it's ok. But for short time, it's too much work, every click counts (what can I say, people are lazy, at least I am). If I just keep the tab open, it's zero extra work, it's hard to beat that.

It's like a piece of paper I'll need tomorrow. I could file it in "current papers" folder and put it neatly in filing cabinet drawer. Or I can just keep it on my desk. Done several times a day, there's no doubt what's easier.

Windows taskbar is also different. I can't stand to have too many running programs there. My limit is around ten and that already means it's too much, because there's no way I'm actively using all of them. And taskbar grouping is horrible invention, because it obscures things. If I have ten windows, I want to see ten taskbar buttons and be able to select any of them with single click. I admit that it might sound strange, how I hate too many things in one place and have no problem with them in another, even though it looks similar. I'm affraid I can't explain it, but to me it's completely different.

I also don't like various tab organizers, because they break the simplicity. If I'd use them, I might as well use bookmarks. It's like several desks in other room to put papers on. Maybe slightly more accessible than file cabinet, but it's nowhere near to paper on my own desk I'm sitting at right now.

moonbat wrote:But you can always use the addressbar to simultaneously query both bookmarks and history.

Can you elaborate? I can find previously open pages in address bar, but I need some keyword for that. But I don't remember too many details about pages I keep open in tabs "for tomorrow", that's the point. And even if I remember something, it's usually not enough to find the page in history. I use the browser a lot and the only thing the history is good for, is to color visited links. Trying to find anything there is rarely a pleasant and quick experience, there's just too much stuff there.

Hehe.. 233 tabs here in my active to use list - lot of stuff which i really do not want to close, most computer music related or Amiga/C64 stuff... And as i come back to them again and again, why not leaving them open in a session. Memory has to be used anyway

I use tab groups manager (revived) which works pretty well for me. tan groups panorama certainly used to have a tendency to lose things or forget which group they were in, and i've never had that problem with tgm

Color me strange, but I very rarely have more than 4 or 5 tabs open unless
I'm researching something. Then it can be up to 20 but usually no more.
When I'm done I just close them, as I can't stand the clutter.
The only real reason I even use Tree Style Tabs is for the ability to have my
tabs on the side and that the bar auto hides when I'm not using it. A bit of OCD I guess.

If I end up needing something I closed, I just go to my history.
As it's neatly organized by time and days anyway.

Sob__ wrote:

moonbat wrote:But you can always use the addressbar to simultaneously query both bookmarks and history.

Can you elaborate? I can find previously open pages in address bar, but I need some keyword for that. But I don't remember too many details about pages I keep open in tabs "for tomorrow", that's the point. And even if I remember something, it's usually not enough to find the page in history. I use the browser a lot and the only thing the history is good for, is to color visited links. Trying to find anything there is rarely a pleasant and quick experience, there's just too much stuff there.

If you can recall even a small part of the title or URL of the page you're looking for, you can type it in the addressbar and it will be picked up from your browser history in addition to bookmarks. I have my browser history going back for years, so it's easy to do.
And recently I recovered my entire stock of del.icio.us bookmarks, which I'd meticulously tagged over a decade, so it's even easier to search now.

Thehandyman1957 wrote:Color me strange, but I very rarely have more than 4 or 5 tabs open unless
I'm researching something. Then it can be up to 20 but usually no more.
When I'm done I just close them, as I can't stand the clutter.
The only real reason I even use Tree Style Tabs is for the ability to have my
tabs on the side and that the bar auto hides when I'm not using it. A bit of OCD I guess.

If I end up needing something I closed, I just go to my history.
As it's neatly organized by time and days anyway.

Exactly this.