You need a sense of humor to live in the digital age

[TwoTankAmin]

This is a longish post so be warned.

I know my use of digital technology is far different than most. I am more limited in what I do and use only one device to access the net. I do relish my privacy and dislike the push nature of selling online. I do no mobile computing at all and my cell is a flip phone for emergency use mostly and it is turned off 95% of the time, maybe more. It is used for voice only and I think I can still count on my fingers (and maybe a few toes) the number of people who have that number.

I have been a registered user of Paypal for 17 years. I came to it when it was the preferred method of payments in the tropical fish hobby. I buy and sell fish using it. Over time I have used it more for other purchases online. It has run smoothly for me for years and I have not had any complaints with the company or the site. But, for the past few months every time I log on to my Paypal account I get a screen asking me to register my mobile number. This is a PITA since there is no practical reason for me to provide it. I do not text and on the very rare occasion a text arrives on my flip phone, I assume it is spam and delete it unread.

So I used the internal Paypal communication system to ask if they could please stop nagging me. Here is the exact exchange that has played out over the past few weeks.

7/13/18 at 6:15 PM
Hi Paypal people, Please note that I do not do mobile computing. My cell phone is for voice only and is for use only when away from home. It is turned off 95% of the time. So please stop asking me to confirm my cell as there is nothing to confirm. Thanks, Chris L
user_account_type : PREMIER
user_device_type : DESKTOP
user_customer_experience : PREMIER
browser_type : DESKTOP
web_form_type : ACCTPHONE001

Hello Chris L.,

Thanks for contacting us. Based on your selection, we’re sending you this automated response that explains how you can change the phone number(s) on your PayPal account.

If these do not answer your question, please reply to this email and our customer service team will be happy to assist you.

You can make edits to the phone number(s) registered to your PayPal account at any time.

Here's how:

Click the Settings icon next to "Log out."
Under the "Phone" section, click Update.
You'll be able to add, edit or remove any phone numbers.
Once the changes are made, click Update Number.

OK- clearly that is not a human being replying. But it was my first contact, let me try and explain again and get a human response. So I sent this reply.

From: Chris L
Your recent question about how to edit your phone number(s)
7/15/18 at 12:37 AM
PayPal Customer Support :

I do not want to edit my phone number.
I do not use a smart phone, How do I get you to stop asking me to add my cell number every time I log on?

I got this reply back:

From: PayPal Customer Support
RE: Your recent question about how to edit your phone number(s)
7/16/18 at 2:54 PM

Hi Chris L,

I'm Nicole from PayPal Customer Support and I apologize for the delayed response.

Thank you for contacting us regarding your concern to stop receiving prompts in adding your phone number everytime you log-in. No worries, I’d be happy to assist you with that.

I've reviewed your account and I don't see any prompts right now. Additionally, there might be some instances wherein we'll ask you to add your number when you're using a different device or when logging on in a different location to verify you're the account holder.

Rest assured that your account is perfectly fine.

I hope you found this useful. Have a great day!

Sincerely,
Nicole
PayPal Customer Solutions Support Specialist
PayPal


Oh boy, it looks like a real person but the answer makes no sense considering where I started. So once again I send my response back:

From: Chris L
RE: Your recent question about how to edit your phone number(s)
8/15/18 at 7:24 PM
PayPal Customer Support :

I just logged onto Paypal to transfer my balance to my bank. I got the same screen asking me to supply my mobile number.I do not use a mobile phone except as an emergency device. It is never turned on when I am home. It is used when I travel and only to make phone calls. I do not do any form of mobile computing. I do not share my cell phone number for the most part. There are about a dozen people who have it. Paypal will not be one of them.

I wish you would stop making me do this every time I log onto my account.

Chris L.

At this point I do not think i can make things clearer. And this comes back from Paypal;

From: PayPal Customer Support
RE: Your recent question about how to edit your phone number(s)
8/16/18 at 8:41 AM

Dear Chris Leighton,

Thank you for contacting PayPal Customer Support about your account.

I believe email is a great way to communicate in most situations but in this case it's best to have it rectified better by speaking to you directly. This way, we can ask you for additional details about your account and provide you with the best resolution.

We need to do this procedure while you’re on the line for the security of your account. You can give us a call at 1-888-221-1161 (or 1-402-935-2050 if calling from outside the U.S.) during these hours:

5:00 AM PT to 10:00 PM PT, Monday-Friday
6:00 AM PT to 6:00 PM PT, Saturday-Sunday

Thank you for your patience and understanding. Have a great day and take care.

Sincerely,
Christian
Consumer Support
PayPal

Now I am getting really annoyed. And I noticed Nivole has morphed into Christian. So I replied yet again with this and I was getting so angry I could not type straight:

From: Chris L.
RE: Your recent question about how to edit your phone number(s)
8/16/18 at 10:30 AM
PayPal Customer Support :

Tgis stuff is not rocket science. maybe this will help you folks understand. here is a link to the page that comes up when I log onto my Paypal account
https://www.paypal.com/signin/phone-con ... nfirmation

Here is the URL I use to log on http://www.paypal.com/

Here is the URL you redirect me to when I click on Log On for the above page.

And that then brings me to the cell phone confirmation page.

As far as paypal is concerned, I do not own a cell phone.So I cannot provide a cell phone number. Let me make it even clearer. I do not own a tablet, I do not own a laptop, I do not own a smart phone. I own one device my desktop PC. I do no mobile computing or accessing the net that way ever at all. I have never sent nor received a text message. I do not consider mobile computing, especially via a phone line to be safe. I am a privacy nut and I so not operate like most of the fools out there. I block a lot of the things sites try to load onto my box.

That nag is a PITA for me. Perhaps you can understand this better if I give you an example. I can call customer support every time I get that prompt and complain to them. This would be a waste of your time and resources. How many times would my making this call have to happen before you got really annoyed?

One observation here. I only get the nag screen when I log onto Paypal directly. If I am being logged on from a merchant site to make a payment, I do not see that page.

Finally, you have my land line number, you have always had that. I make no apoplgies for not using a cell phone.

Chris L

Now you would think this would end it all. But then that would take the involvement of a real human being. Nope:

From: PayPal Customer Support
RE: Your recent question about how to edit your phone number(s)
8/16/18 at 7:43 PM

Dear Chris L,

Thank you for emailing us back, Chris.

I understand how you'd feel about this matter, please know that this is not the experience we want you to have here in PayPal.

For account security, we sometimes ask you to to provide your mobile number to ensure that it's you who's logging in to your account.

It would still be best if you could call us at 1-888-221-1161 and pass some validation process so that we can help you log in to your account.

Here's when:

4:00 AM PT to 10:00 PM PT, Monday-Friday
6:00 AM PT to 8:00 PM PT, Saturday-Sunday

Please know that we are always here to help you out and ensure that all of your queries are properly addressed.

Thank you for being part of the PayPal community.

Sincerely,
Elyn
PayPal Customer Solutions
PayPal

Well That finally got me to the end of my rope since Nicole/Christian was now Elyn ( They must have a name generating app ot something?) And here was my final reply this morning:

From: Chris L.
RE: Your recent question about how to edit your phone number(s)
8/17/18 at 7:48 AM
PayPal Customer Support :

I now assume I am exchanging emails with an AI program not a human being. I have not once stated I have any issues logging onto my Paypal account. What I said is your nag is a pain in the butt,

Please reprogram yourself as I am done with this BS from Paypal.

I am not a robot.


You really do need need a sense of humor to survive in the the digital age these days.....

[fillerup]

those replies must have come from AI bots, there's no other explanation for how dense they were

[Isengrim]

Try this handy set of robot kill phrases:
"Gort! Klaatu barada nikto!"
"Laputan Machine"
"Does a set of all sets contain itself?"

But seriously, this is why automation is not always a Good Thing™.

[therube]

The issue is not living in the digital world, the issue is removing PEOPLE from support roles.
And then blocking customers from, or making it highly inconvenient to actually get to speak with a person.
Not to mention that most often the person you get to speak with is, let's say, inept.

Call a BoA 800# & try to get to speak to a person without first entering your account#, your ... whatever in the world they require. (I did, try, yesterday. Eventually spoke with a person, who was rather good, actually. Later I got an email survey. One of my responses was that everyone at BoA should act like this particular girl, & I said, in particular those in the Office of the President. [I've sort of had the occasion to hammer on them from time to time.]

And I called BC/BS (yesterday) to get an explanation of the Explanation Of Benefits letter I received. What a joke that was. Inept from the get go. She transfers me to her "supervisor". He was just as inept & contradicted everything she told me. And he was to have his "supervisor" call me back. [Still waiting.]

And I called Verizon (yesterday) to get a busy-out roll-over removed from one of our lines (while they were doing repairs on our lines). And they don't want to talk to you unless you have your "in service date" (I said, try 10/10/1986) or account number (sorry) or other such crap. As in, like your telephone number isn't good enough. So I wound up at their Executive Offices who says they'll take care of it. So 1.5 hours later, "Jeremy" calls & says all I needed to do was to hit *73 while on the line & that will drop roll-over. [As in like why any of the multiple "people" I had spoken to prior had not just said that. Instead, uh, "what is your in service date". What a crock.]

(Contrast that with Comcast, who recently had a short outage in our area. And what did they do, they took the call, already knew about the issue, & they fixed it. And then, out of the blue, they mailed explanation letters to their customers explaining the situation. [And a few days later, when Verizon repair was out - again, I showed it to them. {As in saying, this is how you're supposed to support your customers.}]

BoA & Verizon absolutely do not care about their customers. (BoA in particular.)

[Sob__]

Welcome to 2018! I guess not having cell phone is something they simply can't grasp, because everybody has one. Except you, and even that's not true, because you do have it. I don't have smartphone myself, only dumbphone that can do only voice and sms (and sucks at the latter). I'm less secretive about it than you, but even I'm a minority.

I assume that from their point, they are trying to help (both you and them) by requiring phone number. It's probably used as additional form of verification in case you'd e.g. forget password or got it stolen and try to get your account back. You might say that it's nonsense, because you don't forget or lose passwords. Neither do I, but other people do, a lot of them. And since - back to beginning - everyone has cell phone these days, it's simple and elegant way how to help with problems like these. Still not completely foolproof, but people don't lose both password and phone at the same time that often.

Could they add "I don't have cell phone or don't want to give you the number" button? Sure, but the number of people for whom sharing the number is big problem is likely very low and it's easier to ignore them. After all, it's just a stupid prompt, it's not like it would prevent you from using the service.

[TwoTankAmin]

I do not apologize for not agreeing to let stupidity run rampant. FIOS does suck, I use them. The do only one good thing. They use a low power system which is powered by them and their customers. When you get their set-up they give you a battery back-up so your phone will work for a few hours during a power outage. However, where we live pretty much everybody has backup generators. So when the power goes out we do not lose FIOS service. This will usually only happen if the lines are physically.cut/broken. I cannot think of another reason why anybody would choose FIOS besides that one. They are overpriced, their user interfaces are not reliable and their cable boxes are a joke.

Somebody I once knew knew had as their online signature. "If you stand for nothing, you fall for everything. If people accept this sort of crap from those who are making money from us, users will keep getting treated worse and worse.

I would point out the following data from the Pew Research Center published in February 2018, Mobile Fact Sheet

Regarding people aged 65+, 85% own any form of cell phone. 46% own a smart phone and 40% use a cell but not a smart phone.

I am 70. And my cell phone practices are in line with my age group.

If you want to see all of the Pew demographics data about usage of devices in the USA, you can find it here http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/

[TwoTankAmin]

One last observation here about stupidity and how companies never lack their supply of this.

In order for a user to contact Paypal using their internal communication system requires the user be logged onto Paypal. I order for a user to read the reply from paypal requires that the user log on as well.

So I have send 5 messages to them and received 5 replies. Yet they persist is offering me help with mu problems logging onto my accounts.

Can you say STUPID

What we users need is our own AI to engage with corporate AIs. just imagine how fast the internet would seize up and stop working. There would be so many conversations between stupids that it would break the internet. It would also illustrate how irrelevant and superfluous humans are becoming.

Oh yes, I got another reply this morning from the Paypal bot urging me to call in for help logging on. DOH.