The day Chrome Dies.

General discussion and chat (archived)
Thehandyman1957

The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-07-18, 20:41

Ok, maybe not, but I can hope right? :mrgreen:

Chrome feeling SLOW? New update designed to stop hackers stealing your personal information will reduce performance, Google admits
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... dmits.html

And my favorite quote:
Intel says the average computer user won't experience significant slowdowns as it's fixed. Bwaaaaahahahahaha. :lol:
Last edited by Thehandyman1957 on 2018-07-18, 20:44, edited 1 time in total.

Latitude

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Latitude » 2018-07-19, 07:48

Chrome is huge (the best machine to feel it is by using older computer with more minimal RAM).

I run Opera and I could feel it.

The another thing I dislike with Chromium-based browsers is the way it renders the fonts. Somehow it is sharper in Mozilla browsers.

User avatar
Night Wing
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 5151
Joined: 2011-10-03, 10:19
Location: Piney Woods of Southeast Texas, USA

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Night Wing » 2018-07-19, 08:36

The performance loss when using Chrome is going to be noticed when users have a lot of tabs open, especially running high resolution video and images. The key question, just how many tabs when opened, but that wasn't answered in the article and I think Google does not know the answer either.
Linux Mint 21.3 (Virginia) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
MX Linux 23.2 (Libretto) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox
Linux Debian 12.5 (Bookworm) Xfce w/ Linux Pale Moon, Linux Waterfox, Linux SeaLion, Linux Firefox

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2018-07-19, 08:52

I think there's a very easy way to kill chrome now.
Create a page with a whole bunch of iframes in it.

Oh OHEY You know that is exactly what happens with most advertisements on pages? They are usually loaded in iframes.
Woo. one process spawned for each ad.
Last edited by Moonchild on 2018-07-19, 08:53, edited 1 time in total.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

User avatar
therube
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1650
Joined: 2018-06-08, 17:02

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by therube » 2018-07-19, 10:36

And hasn't every mitigation attempt at thwarting VPNfilter "reduced performance".
Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Linux, Mozilla. ... And by that token, PM too.

Note that like Chrome, Mozilla also is going in a similar direction, Fission.

And while we're at it, I don't know what you use for an antivirus, but my antivirus program speeds up all my system operations.
(My A/V is named, cocaine.)
Last edited by therube on 2018-07-19, 10:40, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2018-07-19, 12:16

therube: not sure what you're going on about but you;'re all over the place with your post. VPNfilter has nothing to do with browser performance nor spectre.
Kindly try not to derail threads.

As for Fission:
"The problem is thus: In order for site isolation to work, we need to be able
to run *at least* 100 content processes in an average Firefox session."

Good luck with that, Mozilla. the IPC overhead alone will kill you.
Last edited by Moonchild on 2018-07-19, 12:18, edited 1 time in total.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Thehandyman1957

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-07-19, 18:19

Windows 10, is somewhere between 17 and 21MB. Linux and OS-X hover between 25
and 35MB. In other words, between 2 and 3.5GB for an ordinary session.
Whoa, :wtf: and just what is considered a "ordinary session"? :eh:
Now remember: we need to do *all* of these in order to reach our goal.
This whole thing reminds me of a very vivid dream I had years ago.

I was in a very tall building on the top floor and there was a party going on. Everybody
was having a great time but something felt off. At that point I was pulled out of the room
and carried outside and slowly I was taken down outside to see what was happening to the building.
To my surprise, there were people pulling parts of the building out. The further I went down, the more
parts were being removed. By the time I got to the bottom the whole foundation was almost gone and
the building was heaving to and fro. I woke up! :shock:

To me, Firefox and this idea has the same analogy. They once built a great browser. But since then
they are now; and have been, tearing parts out as they build even higher and party on the top floor. :problem:

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 35477
Joined: 2011-08-28, 17:27
Location: Motala, SE
Contact:

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Moonchild » 2018-07-19, 18:52

Thehandyman1957 wrote:Whoa, :wtf: and just what is considered a "ordinary session"? :eh:
An ordinary session is one where they, with site isolation, would need 100 content processes, give or take.
Say, there's on average 4 ads on pages you have open, that would be 20 tabs to get to 100 processes. at 20-35MB just for the process overhead per process, that leads to 2-3.5 GB of memory used just to spawn those processes (not counting the content they have to load and render).

But I think there's a much bigger problem with 100 content processes. It won't be memory, it will be the sheer amount of context switching that needs to be done by the OS to run all these processes concurrently, and the IPC communication between them.
Last edited by Moonchild on 2018-07-19, 18:53, edited 1 time in total.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
"Linux makes everything difficult." -- Lyceus Anubite

Thehandyman1957

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-07-19, 21:17

Moonchild wrote: It won't be memory, it will be the sheer amount of context switching that needs to be done by the OS to run all these processes concurrently
Will this cause cache issues? Is there a limit to how much context switching can be done on a
given CPU? :problem:

And since it saves the "address space" I'm assuming this is including space on the ram, Am I correct?
So in the end it would use even more memory by having to save the "state" of every context switch
on top of all the other stuff right? :problem:
Last edited by Thehandyman1957 on 2018-07-19, 22:13, edited 4 times in total.

vannilla
Moon Magic practitioner
Moon Magic practitioner
Posts: 2183
Joined: 2018-05-05, 13:29

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by vannilla » 2018-07-19, 22:04

Thehandyman1957 wrote: Will this cause cache issues? Is there a limit to how much context switching can be done on a
given CPU? :problem:
Yes to both.
How much of a problem it really is depends on the specific hardware, but the time required to do the necessary operations definitely becomes not negligible.
Thehandyman1957 wrote: And since it saves the "address space" I'm assuming this is including space on the ram, Am I correct?
So in the end it would use even more memory by having to save the "state" of every context switch
on top of all the other stuff right? :problem:
I'm not sure what you are asking, but each process, be it Firefox or a different application, requires space in RAM to operate.
Any process needs to save its state somewhere, regardless if it's being executed by the processor, so if Firefox starts 100 processes it means that 100 processes will be saved somewhere in the RAM.
But as Moonchild said, the bigger problem is having the processor changing from one process to another, and whatever I/O operations are needed for inter-process communications.
If your machine isn't powerful enough, Firefox alone can make the processor thrash.

Thehandyman1957

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by Thehandyman1957 » 2018-07-19, 22:13

And won't IPC's use their own amount of ram also?

So they want to gut as much ram usage out of Firefox so they can then consume a huge amount in
their fix? That and the extra amount of CPU usage to run it all. Seems like a bad idea to me. :think:

This is like building a truck and re-enforcing the frame and body only to find out it's to heavy and thus
you need new tires, hubs and shocks and then after that you find out the engine is now to small to push
the thing and the transmission can't handle the power of the new engine. :crazy: :lol:

User avatar
therube
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1650
Joined: 2018-06-08, 17:02

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by therube » 2018-07-20, 01:57

Moonchild wrote:VPNfilter has nothing to do with browser performance nor spectre.
Oops, you're right.
I pulled VPNfilter out of my hat, when it was spectre I meant to mention.

Anyhow, we have all these newfound vulnerabilities, on CPU, in OS, in browsers or otherwise, & many of the recent mitigation steps (attempts) have resulted in speed losses, be in in an OS in general, or in specific applications, like a browser.
Last edited by therube on 2018-07-20, 02:02, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mr tribute
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 332
Joined: 2016-03-19, 23:24

Re: The day Chrome Dies.

Unread post by mr tribute » 2018-07-20, 03:20

Thehandyman1957 wrote: This whole thing reminds me of a very vivid dream I had years ago.

I was in a very tall building on the top floor and there was a party going on. Everybody
was having a great time but something felt off. At that point I was pulled out of the room
and carried outside and slowly I was taken down outside to see what was happening to the building.
To my surprise, there were people pulling parts of the building out. The further I went down, the more
parts were being removed. By the time I got to the bottom the whole foundation was almost gone and
the building was heaving to and fro. I woke up! :shock:
Scary dream. This is how I feel about the world today. Maybe I'm getting old. I didn't always feel like this. I don't see progress anymore. Things usually get dumbed down or manipulated/locked down in some way or another (Firefox is a good example).

I think we are mostly rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic now. There are many people with a vision that could make a difference, but the decision makers are partying on the top floor. All the tech companies are in a sad state. It would be better if Firefox had more market share, but they brought destruction upon themselves... It's on the grass rots level where advancements are made now like Pale Moon.

As for Google and Chrome; could be worse if it was Microsoft that designed the web. Remember IE6?

Locked