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TwoTankAmin
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Which VPN?

Unread postby TwoTankAmin » Fri, 25 May 2018, 01:51

I am a tech dummy. i want to us a VPN. I want to be sure it will work with Pale Moon , current version. I run Windows 7 64 bit. I use FIOS from Verizon as my ISP. From what i can tell the easiest VPN to use would be ExpressVPN. And article on the best VPNS for Pale Moon doesn't list Express. Aside from the VPN helping greatly with privacy, especially in blocking my ISP from tracking me, it needs to be dirt simple to use. So I have 2 questions please,

1. Will Express VPN work OK with Pale Moon?

2. What would be the best most simple to use VPN with pale Moon?

Just to help exclude some considerations. I have one device, so limits on how many devices it could go on is not relevant. i can afford to pay for a VPN and would pay more for ease of use. I do not game and don't use social media. I do block ads and trackers etc. and store no cookies at all.

Thanks in advance for any advice or information.

PS - Today I got an email regarding Oath- this is the brand name for yahoo and AIL services and its all owned by Verizon. About a year ago they pushed their Email onto AOL. Bunch of BS, but to keep my verizon.net addys, I had to accept AOL. They are pretty bad, but it mostly works. The Email wanted me to agree to a new User Agreement. Part of this is they can read all my emails. No way I agree to that. So I did not click to do the acceptance process. they claim I can opt out of data collection and i do not believe that for one second. I believe they have an opt out button, I just do not believe it does anything. You can read about this BS here on Kim Komanod's site https://www.komando.com/happening-now/455054/yahoo-aol-and-oaths-new-massive-email-privacy-policy-changes-you-need-to-know-about

I also delted their email a copy of which you can see in that article. I had over 2,000 emails stored there and have been deleting most of them today.
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Fri, 25 May 2018, 02:28

I personally don't use a VPN but if I did I would read this again.
I Am Anonymous When I Use a VPN – 10 Myths Debunked

https://www.goldenfrog.com/blog/myths-a ... -anonymity
It really opened my eyes on some issues I would have never even thought of.

The VyprVPN service they talk about seems very up front and they have some very compelling
arguments on why their service is the best.

Also, they use an app on your windows device to work all the "VPN stuff"
so making this a simple and easy to use process.

I can't really say one way or the other but if I decided to use a VPN
I would probably use their service simply for their honesty and control.

Prices seem very reasonable too, only $60 bucks a year.

Good luck on your search. ;)
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby TwoTankAmin » Fri, 25 May 2018, 02:38

@Thehandyman1957

Thanks for the info. Your link is to a 2015 article. Here is a more recent one I just found and it loves Express VPN. It is a May 2018 article by Sven Taylor for Restore Privacy https://restoreprivacy.com/best-vpn/

here is a quick quote for the article:
ExpressVPN is also a service that continues to get better. In the past year, they have made significant improvements to their apps to protect users against rare leak scenarios that plague most VPNs. These efforts culminated in the public release of their leak testing tools, which can be used to test any VPN for flaws/failures (free, open source, and available on GitHub).


I also talked to AOL and I am now looking for a new Email provider. I am looking at Proton - I would be willing to use one of the paid accounts, Anybody know anything about Proton?
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Isengrim » Fri, 25 May 2018, 02:50

Off-topic:
TwoTankAmin wrote:I also talked to AOL and I am now looking for a new Email provider. I am looking at Proton - I would be willing to use one of the paid accounts, Anybody know anything about Proton?

I just opened a free protonmail account about two weeks ago and don't have any complaints yet. Granted, I've only been using it very lightly, not as my main email account. Depending on your needs, you may not need a paid account.
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Nigaikaze » Fri, 25 May 2018, 02:56

I like Private Internet Access:

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com

They have a Windows client that you can install (and a Linux client, if you ever switch to Linux), a nice tutorial to walk you through installation, reasonable prices, a variety of payment options, and they're very focused on privacy.

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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby TwoTankAmin » Fri, 25 May 2018, 10:36

I have really been getting an education on this topic the last 24 hours. This is what I have come to believe is the case.

If you use any of the big American based email providers, your emails will be read by that provider. If one does not agree to permit this, you cannot open a new account with them and if you have an existing one and they are changing their UA terms, you must agree to permit the spying or they will close your account.

Even if one decides to take action to avoid such issues by using one of the encrypted services, they only work completely if both the sender and the receiver of the email have the same encrypted email provider. So, if one uses one of the privacy oriented services and one sends an email to a person using Yahoo, AOl, Google etc as their email provider, your email will be read by the recipients email provider. This is pretty much the case with any of the US based companies.

Basically, Email is now a completely unprivate way to communicate no matter what one does at their end. As far as I can tell the only way to prevent this incredible invasion of Privacy is not to use email as a way to communicate. I do things like renew prescriptions, confirm doctors appointments, exchange information with lawyers or accountants. I guess that must stop. Why should AOL mail (which is really Verizon) have the right to know what medications I take, what legal issues concern me, what questions I may ask of my accountant involving taxes or a lawyer involving an estate for which I am the executor etc.?

The more I look at the digital age, the more I believe the potential evil it is doing is starting to overwhelm the benefits.

(Edits were to correct spelling/typo errors.)
Last edited by TwoTankAmin on Fri, 25 May 2018, 10:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby rabnbeinn » Fri, 25 May 2018, 11:53

I have tried a few different VPNs and I have chosen to stick IPVanish. I only use it for getting into blocked (torrent) sites and run utorrent through it, and for bypassing any other blocked sites in the UK. I run everything else through my own provider on a separate laptop.
I don't care about logs etc, I chose IPVanish for their speed and number of servers across many countries, obviously the speed depends on where the server of choice is. Their set-up was simply and is very easy to use, one click and I'm connected to my server of choice, it's cheap (£20 per quarter) so not going to break the bank, it has a Kill Switch (this is a MUST) and is very reliable.

It also works flawlessly with PM.

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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Moonchild » Fri, 25 May 2018, 12:36

I've relied on "VPN Unlimited" for years now whenever I am traveling, and also to bypass some region restrictions for content (e.g. BBC iPlayer, Netflix/USA). I do recommend it; true VPN (not just a proxy) with dedicated VPN clients on Windows and Linux, proper leak protection, etc. At $5/month for unlimited use it won't break the bank, either.

All plans include

5 devices
Unlimited traffic and connection speed
OpenVPN, L2TP/IPSec, IKEv2, KeepSolid Wise, PPTP protocols
Military-grade 256-bit encryption

24/7 email and instant live chat support
Proprietary apps
Torrent (P2P) servers
Full access to 400+ servers in 70+ locations
Zero-log policy


https://www.vpnunlimitedapp.com/en

Disclaimer: I got a lifetime from them for free through a special offer social network signup many years ago. Even if not, I would still happily pay for their service.
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby adesh » Fri, 25 May 2018, 16:11

TwoTankAmin wrote:I also talked to AOL and I am now looking for a new Email provider.

Off-topic:
Try mailbox.org, Privacy Made in Germany! Europe has more sensibility.

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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Phantom » Sat, 26 May 2018, 03:27

First and foremost, a VPN will not protect you from your emails being read. As they are transmitted perhaps, but not at the server level where they sit. There is one email service out of Switzerland of which the name escapes me that seems pretty decent. Ah! It's called proton mail.

There are a few things you need to consider. Like turning off WebRTC ( I think Pale Moon has this be default) and making sure there are no DNS leaks.

https://www.dnsleaktest.com/

https://browserleaks.com/webrtc#webrtc-disable

Disabling WebRTC in a smart device is harder to do.

Read this: https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-a ... 17-170304/

I use VPNAC and they've been pretty good. Easy to use stand alone client and offer ECC and XOR encryption. Plus, this VPN operates out of Romania where there is stricter privacy with ISPs, etc.

Read this to setup a second router in case you want to run Kodi. https://restoreprivacy.com/vpn-router-setup/
Last edited by Phantom on Sat, 26 May 2018, 03:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby TwoTankAmin » Sat, 26 May 2018, 05:05

@Moonchild

TY for your input which I greatly respect. I spent about a half hour on the VPN Unlimited site checking it out. When I hit this bit, I figured it meant i will not be able to use it:
In general, OpenVPN utilizes various third-party software, which adds a number of handy features. It is open source, highly configurable, and is able to tackle all sorts of tasks. At the same time, this means that OpenVPN requires technical knowledge to set up and configure. Also, its dependence on third-party solutions makes this protocol prone to occasional technical problems and suboptimal performance.

Bold added by me.

I have no doubt this outfit is decent and their VPN is excellent. it just looks like it is above my technical grade. BTW, they show that $149 lifetime offer. A great deal, imo.

I am also wondering about the Proton VPN. If is is anything like their email, it is probably as secure as it gets. I do not know how easy it is to use. When I go to the various VPN sites, I do not understand what they are talking about on most sites when they tout a lot of the features. So I am still leaning towards Express VPN. This is helped by their offering a version for Linux which is where i am headed when Win 7 goes out of the last vestiges of support. What I do know is I am very attracted to the idea of using both a VPN and Email provider not based in the USA. I want somebody subject to laws way more privacy oriented than we have here. Proton is in Switzerland and Express VPN is in the British Virgin islands.

The cost for these two services is not onerous. Taking the plans I would choose it is $12.33/month for both. That is not an issue for me if they do what they claim they do and I am able to use them pretty easily "out of the box."

To all those who have offered suggestions, I do appreciate them and I do look into them. Thank you. Most seem decent but many are a bit more difficult for me to use properly as I do not know enough to do so. others were not quite right for my needs. I need to settle the Email fairly fast I can take a bit of time on the VPN.
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Moonchild » Sat, 26 May 2018, 09:20

TwoTankAmin wrote:When I hit this bit, I figured it meant i will not be able to use it:

That is just talking about the underlying technologies. OpenVPN is only ONE of the supported protocols, and you can use whatever client you prefer with their service if you so wish.

If you use their supplied client software it will take care of everything for you, regardless of which protocol you decide to use -- it's as simple as selecting a server and clicking the "connect" button, and it will set up the network to use their VPN for your traffic.
Last edited by Moonchild on Sat, 26 May 2018, 09:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Phantom » Sat, 26 May 2018, 13:23

Another thing I forgot to mention is that if a VPN provider allows port forwarding then it's game over. I just asked that VPN this question so will see what they say.

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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Phantom » Sat, 26 May 2018, 13:29

And VPN Unlimited failed the DNS leak test.

Edit-

Actually, it does look like they have DNS leak protection, but when I use my router's DNS it leaks. If I set my network adapter to Google's there is no leak.
Last edited by Phantom on Sat, 26 May 2018, 13:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby TwoTankAmin » Sat, 26 May 2018, 17:51

which protocol you decide to use


Already I am lost. I have no idea about the different protocols and would have to learn a bunch even to be able to make a somewhat informed decision. Ease if use to me means one can use a thing without a ton of learning needed. I operate under the KISS theory as often as possible. I want to make as few decisions and learn as little as possible to be able to use a VPN. I do not care about the things it can do that have no bearing on what i do. Those things just confuse me. And that is why I keep circling back to Express VPN

Tech advisor wrote on 2017
Simple but speedy ExpressVPN is one of the more expensive VPNs reviewed here, but for ease of use and its range of features it does present value for money.

from https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/test-centre/internet/best-vpn-2018-3657732/

Techradar pro wrote this month
What’s also really helpful is that there are loads of web-based tutorials which are easy to follow to help you get up and running with the service. ExpressVPN’s website also offers live chat support, with agents staffed 24/7 to answer any questions you may have about their service.

from https://www.techradar.com/vpn/best-vpn

BestVPN wrote last month
ExpressVPN is a British Virgin Islands-based VPN provider that has always led the way when it comes to offering a customer-focused service. Ease of use, a highly responsive 24/7 customer service team, and an industry-leading, no quibbles, 30-day money-back guarantee ensure ExpressVPN’s place at the top of the VPN industry.

from https://www.bestvpn.com/expressvpn-review/

I guess what I am really asking here now would be:
- Are there any reasons not to use Express? Does it leak? Does it store anything about me or where i go on the net?
- Is there a better choice that is considered to be as easy to use and that would be better in terms of what is under the hood?
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Sat, 26 May 2018, 18:44

TwoTankAmin wrote:I guess what I am really asking here now would be:
- Are there any reasons not to use Express? Does it leak? Does it store anything about me or where i go on the net?
- Is there a better choice that is considered to be as easy to use and that would be better in terms of what is under the hood?


Here are a couple of answers to your questions.
Myth #3
When my VPN provider advertises an “anonymous” service, that means they don’t log any identifying information about me

Myth #3Several VPN providers advertise an “anonymous service” on the marketing pages of their website, but have terms in the fine print of their privacy policy indicating they do log.

A VPN Provider in the UK that advertised an “anonymous service” on its website was outed for turning over customer information about a LulzSec Hacker to the authorities. As you will read below, limited VPN logging is not necessarily bad, as it helps the VPN provider troubleshoot customer issues, prevent abuse of its IP space and network and offer different VPN plans (such as multi-device or GB limited plans). But advertising one service and delivering another service is wrong.

Here are some examples of VPN providers’ marketing messages that appear to contradict the fine print on the Privacy Policy page:


Express VPN:

Website: “surf anonymously”

Privacy Policy: “In addition to the information you provide through our order-form, we may store the following pieces of data: IP address, times when connected to our service, and the total amount of data transferred per day. We store this to be able to deliver the best possible network experience to you. We keep this information secure and private. If we receive complaints regarding copyrighted materials such as music and movies being shared over our network, we may filter traffic to see which account is sending it, and then cancel that account.”


So for me, this is the first deal killer right there. Just because they are on the Virgin Islands doesn't mean anything.
They state clearly in their policy that if asked, they will hand over what ever information is requested by "Authorities". :thumbdown:
Seriously, why even use a VPN if they are willing to do this? :crazy:

This is deal breaker # 2
Screenshot - 5_27_2018 , 11_23_56 AM.png

Myth #5
Even if my VPN provider uses hosted or cloud-based VPN servers I can still be anonymous

Myth #5Anyone that runs server infrastructure knows running infrastructure with ZERO logs is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Now imagine how hard it would be to eliminate logging if you DIDN’T run your own infrastructure and instead rented your VPN servers and network from 3rd parties! Aside from Golden Frog, virtually all VPN providers in the world do not run their own infrastructure. Instead, VPN providers “rent” their servers and network from a “landlord,” such as a hosting company or data center. When the VPN provider “rents” instead of “owns,” how can it guarantee that its “landlord” will respect the privacy of its VPN users?

Just last year, a Dutch customer of a “no log” VPN Provider was tracked down by authorities by using VPN connection logs after using the “no log” VPN service to make a bomb threat. The VPN provider’s data center provider (“landlord”) apparently seized the VPN server at the direction of the authorities. The data center provider was also keeping network transfer logs of the VPN provider. The VPN Provider says they cancelled the contract with the data center but strangely didn’t address the other 100+ locations where they presumably rent VPN servers. Did they cancel contracts with those data centers too? Predictably, this same VPN Provider still prominently advertises an “anonymous VPN service” and claims it keeps “absolutely no logs.”

In the forum of a different VPN Provider, a discussion thread conveniently disappeared when a user questioned whether users can trust data centers to not log.

In 2016, another VPN provider, Perfect Privacy, had two of its servers seized by police in the Netherlands. In this instance the authorities went straight to the hosting provider to obtain the hardware, bypassing the VPN provider completely. This again illustrates the danger of using third parties. If a provider uses third-party hosting and isn’t even contacted when the servers are seized, how can they possibly ensure your data and information are kept safe?

Some questions to ask about VPN Providers who “rent” servers include:

How can the “Server Renters/Cloud” protect their users from their hosting companies taking snapshots of their machines for backup purposes, DDOS purposes, or at the direction of law enforcement?
How can “server renters” prevent a live migration of the hosted VPN server in which an entire image is taken of the computer, including operating system memory and hard drive, especially when live migrations can be invisible to the VPN Provider?
What happens to the data when the hosted machine is no longer used by the VPN provider?
If you don’t own the server, how can you be sure your landlord doesn’t have a key or backdoor into the hosted server?

For the very reasons stated above, if your renting servers that you don't own, then nothing you do is really private at all.

And deal breaker # 3
Screenshot - 5_27_2018 , 11_33_03 AM.png

Split tunneling
In the context of a VPN connection, split tunneling refers to the practice of routing only some traffic over the VPN, while letting other traffic directly access the Internet. Usually, what is routed over the VPN will be traffic destined for internal resources, while web surfing, email, etc. will go directly to the Internet. The VPN client is configured to route interesting traffic through the tunnel, while using the default gateway of the physical address for everything else.
Inverse split tunneling

In inverse split tunneling, once the VPN connection is established, all traffic is routed through the VPN except specific traffic that is routed to the default gateway. This interesting traffic can be defined by IP address, or specific protocols can be defined higher up in the stack.
Interesting traffic

The traffic that should either be routed through the VPN, or with inverse split tunneling the traffic that should not be, is called interesting traffic. It is usually defined by IP address or range, and can include many network addresses. It can also be defined by port at layer 4, or application protocol at layer 7 in some VPN solutions.

There are three different parties involved in this decision, but only two of them get a vote.

The security team usually will want all traffic tunneled, both so that they can protect, and also inspect, everything that a user is doing.

The network team will want to tunnel only the traffic that is destined for internal resources, in order to preserve the bandwidth on the Internet connection and reduce the load on the VPN concentrator.

The users want the best experience possible, and don’t want anyone snooping on their web browsing habits. As you’d expect, they are the ones that don’t get a vote.

Which way should you go? As with all questions in IT, the answer is of course “it depends.”
Pros

If you are going to split tunnel, then you are going to reduce the overall bandwidth impact on your Internet circuit. Only the traffic that needs to come over the VPN will, so anything a user is doing that is not “work related” will not consume bandwidth. In addition, anything external to your network that is also latency sensitive will not suffer from the additional latency introduced by tunneling everything over the VPN to the corporate network, then back out to the Internet, and the return traffic routing over the reverse. Users will get the best experience in terms of network performance, and the company will consume the least bandwidth.
Cons

If security is supposed to monitor all network traffic, or perhaps merely protect users from malware and other Internet threats by filtering traffic, users who are split tunneling will not get this protection and security will be unable to monitor traffic for threats or inappropriate activity. Users on open networks such as hotel wireless or hotspots will also be transmitting much of their traffic in the clear. Traffic to websites that use HTTPS will still be protected, but other traffic will be vulnerable to snooping.
Recommendation

My recommendation is that if you have the bandwidth, don’t split tunnel Internet traffic. That way, your remote users’ web browsing will be protected by the encryption of the VPN even when they are on an open Wi-Fi network, such as at a hotel or coffee shop. I’d rather they deal with a little additional latency in exchange for better security. That said, real-time streams like IP audio and video will suffer. If your VPN solution lets you define both traffic to tunnel and traffic not to tunnel, or can use inverse split tunneling, let your audio and video go direct if the server is not on your internal network. It should already be encrypted, and with those applications a little additional latency could make the difference between functional and broken.

Split tunneling is not just a security concern. A company with a large remote workforce can consume significant amounts of bandwidth if they do not split tunnel. Weigh the security implications against both performance and costs, and make the best decision for your company. Don’t be afraid to revisit that decision down the road if situations change or performance warrants it.


In a nut shell, it means that Express VPN decides what information is sent in or out of the "tunnel"
and that means you have no control what is open to the net and what isn't.

At this point, I would not trust ExpressVPN and nor would I ever pay money for a service so insecure and full of holes.
I know that learning this stuff is hard for you, but if your going to go through the trouble to "secure" your internet life
then you must take as much due diligence to understand the tech, or your just going to be wasting your money and perhaps
much more. I hope this has helped you. ;)

Oh, and one more deal breaker #4 for those who mentioned it.
Myth #9 New
All VPN software is the same
Myth #9As a recent study pointed out, some VPN products can suffer from IPv6 leakage and DNS vulnerabilities, causing many users to think twice about relying on a VPN to protect them online. However, not all VPNs are created equal. When it comes to the IPv6 leak, only VPNs that run through IPv6 are in danger, and those that use 3rd-party clients (which Golden Frog does not do) are most at risk. As for the DNS vulnerabilities, most VPN providers don’t offer their own DNS servers like Golden Frog does. When DNS requests are sent over 3rd-party networks to 3rd-party DNS servers, users are more vulnerable to monitoring, logging or manipulation.
What Golden Frog does

Golden Frog’s apps are built by an in-house Dev team to deliver better control over security, such as preventing IPv6 leakage. Golden Frog runs its own DNS service, called VyprDNS, so DNS requests cannot be monitored, logged or manipulated by 3rd parties.
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Moonchild » Sun, 27 May 2018, 00:38

Phantom wrote:And VPN Unlimited failed the DNS leak test.

Edit-

Actually, it does look like they have DNS leak protection, but when I use my router's DNS it leaks. If I set my network adapter to Google's there is no leak.


You clearly don't understand, in that case. Of course it "leaks" your location if you use your router's DNS servers. LAN will always be prioritized over routed traffic, so in that case ANY VPN service will "fail" this test. Never use a router DNS address if you use VPN services; always use internet-based DNS services.
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby van p » Sun, 27 May 2018, 03:49

Anybody know anything about Hide My Ass!? Also, I believe I've read comments about VPNs causing hard-to-diagnose problems on people's systems. Are these things worth using?
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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Sun, 27 May 2018, 05:02

van p wrote:Anybody know anything about Hide My Ass!? Also, I believe I've read comments about VPNs causing hard-to-diagnose problems on people's systems. Are these things worth using?


Ask, and though shalt receive! ;)
What everybody ought to know about Hide My Ass!
https://invisibler.com/lulzsec-and-hidemyass/

Be sure to read the comment section. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Thehandyman1957 on Sun, 27 May 2018, 05:03, edited 1 time in total.
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely FOOLPROOF, is underestimating the ingenuity of complete FOOLS! ;) "

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Re: Which VPN?

Unread postby Phantom » Sun, 27 May 2018, 12:28

Got an email back from VPN Unlimited. They are based in New York. That's a no, no. The U.S. is definitely not very Internet privacy friendly. You want a VPN based in Romania, Switzerland, or some other Internet privacy centered country. I also asked about if they use port forwarding. They said not currently, but will implement it. Now that is a HUGE no, no. When port forwarding is on in a VPN your real IP is exposed. Unless they have a way to allow port forwarding and mitigate that flaw.


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