'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

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Tomaso
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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Tomaso » Wed, 17 Jan 2018, 22:03

btw; 'InSpectre' (which I posted a link to in my previous post) also lets you disable/enable the Meltdown/Spectre protections after they have been installed.

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Moonchild » Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 08:23

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:They weren't updating the BIOS or Firmware.. This was from the kernel patch..

I get that, but if I run Gibson's tool it says to fully mitigate spectre I need a BIOS and CPU microcode update.
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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Terryphi » Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 08:40

Moonchild wrote:
New Tobin Paradigm wrote:They weren't updating the BIOS or Firmware.. This was from the kernel patch..

I get that, but if I run Gibson's tool it says to fully mitigate spectre I need a BIOS and CPU microcode update.

The intel-microcode in effect does a run-time fix of the BIOS in Linux. Fortunately, Windows is not my problem.
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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby yereverluvinuncleber » Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 12:01

GMforker wrote:This: https://arxiv.org/abs/1710.00551 is also "nice"...


I am sorry but a link in a post with a comment saying it is nice, in the context of sites potentially stealing our private details using javascript and spectre is not good enough.

A description of the link and what it does and why you are recommending it is essential to prevent people clicking on potentially dodgy sites.

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Fri, 19 Jan 2018, 03:32

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely FOOLPROOF, is underestimating the ingenuity of complete FOOLS! ;) "

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 01:39

Stop the Press!! Oh, wait. Stop, don't update your Intel Meltdown Firmware Fix....

Be
lay that order: Intel says you should NOT install its Meltdown firmware fixes

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... fixes.html
You know how you’re supposed to flash the BIOS or update the UEFI on all of your Intel machines, to guard against Meltdown/Spectre? Well, belay that order, private! Intel just announced that you need to hold off on all of its new patches. No, you can’t uninstall them. To use the technical term, if you ran out and applied your Intel PC’s latest firmware patch, you’re hosed.
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely FOOLPROOF, is underestimating the ingenuity of complete FOOLS! ;) "

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Terryphi » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 15:38

Calm down Thehandyman1957! At least in the Linux world, most users applied the intel-microcode fix with no adverse effect. Those who experienced problems can fix it with newly issued intel-microcode which reverts to the previous position. For instance, Ubuntu made it available in its repository today.
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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 16:00

Except the ones who's systems are now fried because of a voltage error causing their rom chips to burn them selves out that is.

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Night Wing » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 17:49

I'm not going to install the Intel Microcode firmware fix in linux Mint 18.3 (Sylvia). This looks like "flashing the BIOS" (updating) and if that is true, then I had a bad experience with that when I flashed (updated) the BIOS in one of my previous 64 bit Windows 7 laptop. :x

When I updated the BIOS on that laptop, it fried the BIOS which means the laptop became a nothing more than a heavy paperweight and the motherboard was "dead". :o I had to get on Ebay to do a search and find an exact duplicate second motherboard with the same Intel processor and that is how I repaired my laptop to a working laptop again. :thumbup: And I didn't flash (update) the BIOS on the replacement motherboard. Once burned, lesson learned.
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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Trippynet » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 22:38

I've always had the philosophy with OS updates of waiting for a week or two to see if issues arise, then applying the updates if all seems well.

Funnily enough, one of the reasons I refuse to use Windows 10 :)

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Wed, 24 Jan 2018, 01:03

Terryphi wrote:Calm down Thehandyman1957!


You apparently missed my humor in the headline. ;)
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely FOOLPROOF, is underestimating the ingenuity of complete FOOLS! ;) "

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Terryphi » Wed, 24 Jan 2018, 07:42

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:Except the ones who's systems are now fried because of a voltage error causing their rom chips to burn them selves out that is.

What is your source for this claim?
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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby vingtzwanzig » Mon, 29 Jan 2018, 14:44

CPU's are manufactured with the initial default version of microcode / ucode built into their onboard ROM. The CPU also has an onboard area of RAM dedicated to ucode updates. The BIOS contains a ucode update which is applied at every boot. Then (if ucode updates are installed and enabled) your OS triggers a reload of the ucode from the latest binary release early in the boot sequence. Updates are available even for very old 1990's CPU's and the mechanism works for these too, although only more recent CPU's have updates to address these particular security concerns. Using the latest recommended ucode should help the performance and reliability of your hardware in general. It is happening on every boot anyway, you just don't know it because the BIOS is doing it.
A BIOS update is completely different to updating ucode. I upgraded a CPU once and neglected to update the BIOS, it fried the screen, so in some circumstances not updating BIOS can cause hardware damage too :problem:
This pdf from the Arizona State University offers a detailed analysis of microcode.
https://www.dcddcc.com/docs/2014_paper_microcode.pdf
Using Moon PDF viewer (LInux 32 bit) the diagrams won't display properly, each dot on the graphs appears incredibly slowly, it came up OK using Atril from Mate.

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Tomaso » Mon, 29 Jan 2018, 15:26

Windows Update KB4078130 deactivates Spectre Patch:
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/01/29/windo ... tre-patch/

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby RJARRRPCGP » Wed, 31 Jan 2018, 01:09

Tomaso wrote:Intel’s Meltdown fix freaked out some Broadwells, Haswells:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/1 ... _unstable/
Customers say PCs and servers reboot a lot after fixes.
Meanwhile, AMD admits to Spectre problems.


Did it cause Broadwell and Haswell processors to generate machine check exceptions?

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Thu, 05 Apr 2018, 02:43

Intel Admits It Won't Be Possible to Fix Spectre (V2) Flaw in Some Processors

https://thehackernews.com/2018/04/intel ... ility.html

leaving more than 230 Intel processor models vulnerable to hackers that powers millions of computers and mobile devices


Can't say I didn't see this coming. ;)
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely FOOLPROOF, is underestimating the ingenuity of complete FOOLS! ;) "

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby eskaton023 » Thu, 05 Apr 2018, 12:48

Something I hadn't initially thought of, and only occurred to me after viewing the PDF, is how the Intel chips in Android tables won't receive an update for this fault. IIRC, Intel pulled out of the mobile/tablet market, somewhat forcing the hand of the tablet vendors to drop support. I have a Dell Venue 7840 which has an Atom Z3580 in it; it's on the list as viable for an update, but Dell stopped sending updates back at 5.0/Lollipop. Same story with my Lenovo Yoga Tab 3 Pro; the x5-Z8550 is on the availabe update list, but there's been no updates from Lenovo since 6.0/Marshmallow.

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Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Unread postby Latitude » Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 12:52

Night Wing wrote:Once burned, lesson learned.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Last edited by Latitude on Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 12:52, edited 1 time in total.


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