'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

General discussion area and chat

Moderator: satrow

Forum rules
This General Discussions forum is an open chat area, so you can talk about almost any subject. Please keep things civil, though!

Please do try to somewhat stick to the relevance of this forum, which focuses on everything around the Pale Moon project and its user community. "Totally random" subjects don't really belong here, even in the general discussion area.
User avatar
Tomaso
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu, 23 Jul 2015, 16:09
Location: Norway

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Tomaso » Wed, 17 Jan 2018, 22:03

btw; 'InSpectre' (which I posted a link to in my previous post) also lets you disable/enable the Meltdown/Spectre protections after they have been installed.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 20511
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Moonchild » Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 08:23

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:They weren't updating the BIOS or Firmware.. This was from the kernel patch..

I get that, but if I run Gibson's tool it says to fully mitigate spectre I need a BIOS and CPU microcode update.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

User avatar
Terryphi
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed, 26 Aug 2015, 06:32
Location: Wales, UK

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Terryphi » Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 08:40

Moonchild wrote:
New Tobin Paradigm wrote:They weren't updating the BIOS or Firmware.. This was from the kernel patch..

I get that, but if I run Gibson's tool it says to fully mitigate spectre I need a BIOS and CPU microcode update.

The intel-microcode in effect does a run-time fix of the BIOS in Linux. Fortunately, Windows is not my problem.
Linux Mint 18.3 64bit MATE. Latest unstable build of Pale Moon and Basilisk.


yereverluvinuncleber
Moonbather
Moonbather
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed, 06 Dec 2017, 21:25

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby yereverluvinuncleber » Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 12:01

GMforker wrote:This: https://arxiv.org/abs/1710.00551 is also "nice"...


I am sorry but a link in a post with a comment saying it is nice, in the context of sites potentially stealing our private details using javascript and spectre is not good enough.

A description of the link and what it does and why you are recommending it is essential to prevent people clicking on potentially dodgy sites.

User avatar
Thehandyman1957
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue, 19 May 2015, 02:26
Location: Arizona U.S.

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Thehandyman1957 » Fri, 19 Jan 2018, 03:32

"Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny."

User avatar
Thehandyman1957
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue, 19 May 2015, 02:26
Location: Arizona U.S.

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Thehandyman1957 » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 01:39

Stop the Press!! Oh, wait. Stop, don't update your Intel Meltdown Firmware Fix....

Be
lay that order: Intel says you should NOT install its Meltdown firmware fixes

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3 ... fixes.html
You know how you’re supposed to flash the BIOS or update the UEFI on all of your Intel machines, to guard against Meltdown/Spectre? Well, belay that order, private! Intel just announced that you need to hold off on all of its new patches. No, you can’t uninstall them. To use the technical term, if you ran out and applied your Intel PC’s latest firmware patch, you’re hosed.
"Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny."

User avatar
Terryphi
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed, 26 Aug 2015, 06:32
Location: Wales, UK

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Terryphi » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 15:38

Calm down Thehandyman1957! At least in the Linux world, most users applied the intel-microcode fix with no adverse effect. Those who experienced problems can fix it with newly issued intel-microcode which reverts to the previous position. For instance, Ubuntu made it available in its repository today.
Linux Mint 18.3 64bit MATE. Latest unstable build of Pale Moon and Basilisk.

User avatar
New Tobin Paradigm
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 4173
Joined: Tue, 09 Oct 2012, 19:37

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby New Tobin Paradigm » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 16:00

Except the ones who's systems are now fried because of a voltage error causing their rom chips to burn them selves out that is.
OH, BUT MY PRIDE! GRR! I WISH I WERE A CARROT!
[ ニュー・トビン・パラダイム ]

User avatar
Night Wing
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon, 03 Oct 2011, 10:19
Location: Texas, USA

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Night Wing » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 17:49

I'm not going to install the Intel Microcode firmware fix in linux Mint 18.3 (Sylvia). This looks like "flashing the BIOS" (updating) and if that is true, then I had a bad experience with that when I flashed (updated) the BIOS in one of my previous 64 bit Windows 7 laptop. :x

When I updated the BIOS on that laptop, it fried the BIOS which means the laptop became a nothing more than a heavy paperweight and the motherboard was "dead". :o I had to get on Ebay to do a search and find an exact duplicate second motherboard with the same Intel processor and that is how I repaired my laptop to a working laptop again. :thumbup: And I didn't flash (update) the BIOS on the replacement motherboard. Once burned, lesson learned.
Linux Mint 18.3 (Sylvia) Xfce 64-Bit (Default OS) with 64-Bit linux Pale Moon
Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit (Backup OS) with 32-Bit windows Pale Moon

User avatar
Trippynet
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue, 03 Jun 2014, 20:21
Location: UK

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Trippynet » Tue, 23 Jan 2018, 22:38

I've always had the philosophy with OS updates of waiting for a week or two to see if issues arise, then applying the updates if all seems well.

Funnily enough, one of the reasons I refuse to use Windows 10 :)

User avatar
Thehandyman1957
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue, 19 May 2015, 02:26
Location: Arizona U.S.

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Thehandyman1957 » Wed, 24 Jan 2018, 01:03

Terryphi wrote:Calm down Thehandyman1957!


You apparently missed my humor in the headline. ;)
"Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny."

User avatar
Terryphi
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed, 26 Aug 2015, 06:32
Location: Wales, UK

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Terryphi » Wed, 24 Jan 2018, 07:42

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:Except the ones who's systems are now fried because of a voltage error causing their rom chips to burn them selves out that is.

What is your source for this claim?
Linux Mint 18.3 64bit MATE. Latest unstable build of Pale Moon and Basilisk.

vingtzwanzig
Hobby Astronomer
Hobby Astronomer
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu, 20 Apr 2017, 21:25
Contact:

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby vingtzwanzig » Mon, 29 Jan 2018, 14:44

CPU's are manufactured with the initial default version of microcode / ucode built into their onboard ROM. The CPU also has an onboard area of RAM dedicated to ucode updates. The BIOS contains a ucode update which is applied at every boot. Then (if ucode updates are installed and enabled) your OS triggers a reload of the ucode from the latest binary release early in the boot sequence. Updates are available even for very old 1990's CPU's and the mechanism works for these too, although only more recent CPU's have updates to address these particular security concerns. Using the latest recommended ucode should help the performance and reliability of your hardware in general. It is happening on every boot anyway, you just don't know it because the BIOS is doing it.
A BIOS update is completely different to updating ucode. I upgraded a CPU once and neglected to update the BIOS, it fried the screen, so in some circumstances not updating BIOS can cause hardware damage too :problem:
This pdf from the Arizona State University offers a detailed analysis of microcode.
https://www.dcddcc.com/docs/2014_paper_microcode.pdf
Using Moon PDF viewer (LInux 32 bit) the diagrams won't display properly, each dot on the graphs appears incredibly slowly, it came up OK using Atril from Mate.

User avatar
Tomaso
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu, 23 Jul 2015, 16:09
Location: Norway

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby Tomaso » Mon, 29 Jan 2018, 15:26

Windows Update KB4078130 deactivates Spectre Patch:
https://www.ghacks.net/2018/01/29/windo ... tre-patch/

RJARRRPCGP
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon, 22 Jun 2015, 19:48
Location: USA (Bellows Falls, Vermont)

Re: 'Kernel memory leaking' Intel processor design flaw forces Linux, Windows redesign

Postby RJARRRPCGP » Wed, 31 Jan 2018, 01:09

Tomaso wrote:Intel’s Meltdown fix freaked out some Broadwells, Haswells:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/1 ... _unstable/
Customers say PCs and servers reboot a lot after fixes.
Meanwhile, AMD admits to Spectre problems.


Did it cause Broadwell and Haswell processors to generate machine check exceptions?


Return to “General discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yandex [Bot] and 3 guests