When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

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C0MPAQ
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When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby C0MPAQ » Wed, 27 Dec 2017, 19:57

I am worried. For years I have been putting up with the shit that happened to Firefox, until they finally threw it down the garbage bin entirely. The same happened to Opera once, though, it had not been messed up that badly the years before. They just ditched the entire browser for no reason at all. Maybe it just was too good to be true.

I have 20 plugins and what not installed, just to straighten my farts out when using websites. Pale Moon seems to be as good as Firefox was some years back. But then, that Firefox was barely able to emulate what the old stock Opera could already do - 10 or 15 years ago ...

I don't want to argue about, how whoring out each and all basic functionality into plugin space, makes the browser extremely insecure, and also considerably more unstable and slow. Everyone knows that. We all have to accept that we need to live in fear now, that one of the zillion plugin devs is stealing all our private data. Its just a sad fact of life.

My question is: When is Pale Moon going down the drain, and for what stupid reasons this time? Not enough devs, not enough attention? I am new to Pale Moon, I'm thinking now that I made a pretty good catch. But maybe its just wishful thinking?
Last edited by satrow on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 05:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby Moonchild » Thu, 28 Dec 2017, 06:25

I would kindly ask that you take a little less aggressive stance when posting topics on the forum. We'd all want to avoid flame wars if possible. Straight-up dismissing a point mentioned as non-discussion material that is clearly a point of contention is not a good thing, and your post has been pending longer than normal for this reason because as-is it's walking the edge of adhering to our board rules for keeping discussions healthy and constructive.

As for your question: you seem to be assuming the future, and that any "going down the drain" is both going to be inevitable and on purpose. That's setting a precedent I think you shouldn't :) We have no intention of changing our approach and philosophy behind Pale Moon, and as such it will always be developed with a great deal of user input.

As for add-ons, the point you assume such bad things about: Pale Moon is full-featured without them, but allows users to extend the browser to fit their particular workflow. This can only be done efficiently by offering ways to extend the browser, which has always been the strength of the Mozilla-based applications out there. It doesn't make the browser inherently insecure, but it is your responsibility to evaluate whether you actually trust the extensions you install. With great power... etc.
We also employ an extension blocklist to automatically block known-malicious and stability-impacting extensions which seems to be your main concern with them.
If you don't trust the generally fully open extensions available that you can inspect the code of at any time, you even have the option of writing your own.
Avoiding putting workflow-specific features that only affect a small percentage of the users into the browser core keeps it lean and makes it possible for users to decide themselves what they need or want in a browser. You may prefer opera-like operation, but the majority of users do not. Other users may e.g. want to have tight security at the expense of usability on the web, and it would be just as incorrect to impose that on you if you don't feel that need.
Last edited by satrow on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 05:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby lyceus » Thu, 28 Dec 2017, 06:36

C0MPAQ wrote:When is Pale Moon going down the drain, and for what stupid reasons this time? Not enough devs, not enough attention? I am new to Pale Moon, I'm thinking now that I made a pretty good catch. But maybe its just wishful thinking?


Maybe you want to start with a BANG! your history in the forum, but I will add a BOOM! Because your language is very foul and you seems more interested to made flamewar instead than put your facts in order. So you have a shiny and gay warning. :mrgreen:
Last edited by satrow on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 05:09, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby Trippynet » Thu, 28 Dec 2017, 18:04

C0MPAQ wrote:My question is: When is Pale Moon going down the drain, and for what stupid reasons this time? Not enough devs, not enough attention? I am new to Pale Moon, I'm thinking now that I made a pretty good catch. But maybe its just wishful thinking?


No browser ever sets out deliberately to "go down the drain". Sometimes a browser does this because the devs stop listening to the community (ie, Mozilla). Rest assured, the devs still think they're doing the right thing - despite their plummeting market share.

Regarding Pale Moon, predictions of its demise have been made for years. And yet here we are (almost) in 2018 and Pale Moon is still fully working, fully supported, fully developed and staying true to the project's original principles.

I can also confirm that Moonchild *does* listen to the community at large. Example: A year or two ago he was considering removing some of the "Web developer" tools as he felt they were too niche and better suited to an extension. Instead of just going ahead and implementing this change, he set up a poll to gather some feedback and a surprisingly large percentage of people voted to retain them (with many commenting as to how useful they were). Based on this support, the tools were kept. Will every decision made receive universal support? Of course not. Difficult decisions have to be made from time to time, but I do personally feel that Pale Moon as a project does try to listen to its user base more than the mainstream browser developers do.
Last edited by satrow on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 05:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby gracious1 » Thu, 28 Dec 2017, 18:44

Do we really have to keep "gay out" in the title of this thread?
Last edited by satrow on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 05:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby Thehandyman1957 » Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 02:24

gracious1 wrote:Do we really have to keep "gay out" in the title of this thread?


I agree, very vulgar indeed. :sick: Hope they clean it up.
Last edited by satrow on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 05:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby Lunix » Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 02:30

Moonchild please edit the topic title. It is very offensive.
Last edited by satrow on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 05:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 09:03

I think changing the thread title was a bad decision because it rewrites the author's general frustration, anger, and general dissatisfaction with the state of the world..

Even though I disagree with his cynical assessment and his phrasing of our assumed and so deemed inevitable collapse into the same shit everyone else has. Despite the fact that we would rather die as a project kicking and screaming into the night than ever EVER submit to the insanity of the world around us.

However, I do understand it and how hard it is to believe anyone has any integrity, conviction, or willpower left.. Seeing as it is almost unprecedented in today's world.

I also condemn Lobocursor, now known as, lyceus not only issuing a board warning to the frustrated new user but his off-topic and uncalled for public attack of the person when the issues and conduct were already addressed well by Moonchild himself.
Last edited by New Tobin Paradigm on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 09:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby Moonchild » Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 09:26

There was a very good reason why I personally approved the post in all its unedited dubious glory after thinking about it. I made a remark to that effect in my initial reply.

There was no reason to edit the thread title -- on all replies too at that. But never ye mind. I'll just lock it now because it's clearly not possible for the community to keep a mature attitude in the face of someone's openly-displayed frustration.
Last edited by Moonchild on Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 09:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When will Pale Moon upset its users, like Firefox just did?

Unread postby lyceus » Tue, 02 Jan 2018, 04:01

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:I also condemn Lobocursor, now known as, lyceus not only issuing a board warning to the frustrated new user but his off-topic and uncalled for public attack of the person when the issues and conduct were already addressed well by Moonchild himself.


Off-topic:
I know that is bad to post in a locked post, but I just respond to a personal attack:

My name is Lyceus "Lobocursor", I used to sign with my nickname only but I got bored of it so I reverted to my name now. Both are applicable to call me and this is the first and last time I explain this change. Now, despite that Moonchild didn't apply a warning to the user, my task of moderator is to enforce the etiquette rules here. I did understand the anger of the user, but his manners were like he taps in your shoulder then he punch your face and then he ask the time to you. In any language you get little in return with that behavior.


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