The search for a default browser continues

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Mouflonrouge

The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Mouflonrouge » 2017-08-28, 13:44

A few days ago, I downloaded Pale Moon and Cyberfox. I got so excited with Cyberfox, I was thinking my search was over, but then, I read on their forum that their browser will be no longer supported from 2018 and onwards. My disappointment was palpable, because it was a super browser. I got to admit, I like it better than Pale Moon.

I am actually quite confused as to why some members here are very critical of CF.

So then I come across Waterfox and downloaded that. To be honest, I really couldn't detect any difference between WF and CF. Both were top notch and super fast and highly configurable and private with the right settings and search engine.

I think both those, are the best browsers I had ever experienced as far as user experience is concerned.

But i am not very knowledgeable about the back end of these browsers. So given the amount of criticism against these 2 browsers, then maybe there is something I am not getting. What is it that makes these 2 browsers inferior?

I have since uninstalled CF and have kept WF and am enjoying it. I thought it was pointless using CF since its life is now very limited.

I am also using and keeping pale Fox too as I enjoy it too. But not quite as much as WF to be honest.

So please convince me if you can as to why Pale Moon should be my default rather than WF?

What is it that is better about PM over WF?

I do like WF but given what has hapenned to CF, I am concerned that the same thing will happen with WF and maybe PM. So you guys really do need to get together and future proof yourselves somehow.

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Moonchild
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Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Moonchild » 2017-08-28, 14:17

The only person who can decide which browser works best is you.

I'm not going to try and convince you because I'd rather have you make up your own mind in an "all things being equal" situation without external pressure.
I can only suggest you try both browsers, thoroughly explore their possibilities and limitations, and choose what you feel works best for you after giving both some time to do your daily browsing with.
"Sometimes, the best way to get what you want is to be a good person." -- Louis Rossmann
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future." -- Native American proverb
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Mouflonrouge

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Mouflonrouge » 2017-08-28, 14:23

Moonchild wrote:The only person who can decide which browser works best is you.

I'm not going to try and convince you because I'd rather have you make up your own mind in an "all things being equal" situation without external pressure.
I can only suggest you try both browsers, thoroughly explore their possibilities and limitations, and choose what you feel works best for you after giving both some time to do your daily browsing with.
I understand, and I will make my own mind up.

but is there something you guys know about WF that I just don't have the technical knowledge of knowing?

For instance, in layman's terms, what is it about WF that I should be considering with my decision making process?

As9999

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by As9999 » 2017-08-28, 14:53

Mouflonrouge wrote:I really couldn't detect any difference between WF and CF. Both were top notch and super fast and highly configurable and private with the right settings and search engine.
What extra configuration options does Cyberfox have that Firefox 52 ESR doesn't? Nothing... They will live both for exactly as long. I have never tried Waterfox. It's too many options out there, all kinds of foxes, elements and animals... I am hopeful on Pale Moon, maybe. It needs to grow I think.

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ron_1
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Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by ron_1 » 2017-08-28, 14:55

As you (the OP) wrote, Cyberfox is over. But as I understand it, the days of Waterfox are also numbered even though for the time being it is still being developed on the current Firefox ESR branch. (My knowledge of this matter may be lacking though.)

Mouflonrouge

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Mouflonrouge » 2017-08-28, 14:56

As9999 wrote:
Mouflonrouge wrote:I really couldn't detect any difference between WF and CF. Both were top notch and super fast and highly configurable and private with the right settings and search engine.
What extra configuration options does Cyberfox have that Firefox 52 ESR doesn't? Nothing... They will live both for exactly as long. I have never tried Waterfox. It's too many options out there, all kinds of foxes, elements and animals... I am hopeful on Pale Moon, maybe. It needs to grow I think.
I was under the impression that Cyberfox made a bare bones platform by getting rid of features and bloatware that people don't normally use, hence making it faster.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Mouflonrouge

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Mouflonrouge » 2017-08-28, 14:59

helloimustbegoing wrote:As you (the OP) wrote, Cyberfox is over. But as I understand it, the days of Waterfox are also numbered even though for the time being it is still being developed on the current Firefox ESR branch. (My knowledge of this matter may be lacking though.)
Yes the days of CF are numbered. Hence I decided to uninstall and replace with WF.

WF will still be developed according to the dev. I hope he does and doesn't do the same as CF. I really do love WF.

As I also love Pale moon. I am keeping pale Moon just in case. And I think I will be happy with it too.

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ron_1
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Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by ron_1 » 2017-08-28, 17:49

You are right. My memory was faulty.

Latitude

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Latitude » 2017-08-29, 13:22

The true Firefox fork is Pale Moon. Massive code modification has been done on Pale Moon so you could see much differences between Firefox and Pale Moon through codebase POV.
Gecko rendering engine has been forked too and evolved to Goanna.
And the Pale Moon team has forked mozilla-central as UXP as its the most ambitious project ever.
You could build your own XUL-based application on top this UXP. Examples: InstantBird (instant messaging), Thunderbird, KompoZer (now discontinued web authoring application).

And Waterfox is built with clang which is slower than native Microsoft Visual Studio compiler.

Mouflonrouge

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Mouflonrouge » 2017-08-30, 04:58

Latitude wrote:The true Firefox fork is Pale Moon. Massive code modification has been done on Pale Moon so you could see much differences between Firefox and Pale Moon through codebase POV.
Gecko rendering engine has been forked too and evolved to Goanna.
And the Pale Moon team has forked mozilla-central as UXP as its the most ambitious project ever.
You could build your own XUL-based application on top this UXP. Examples: InstantBird (instant messaging), Thunderbird, KompoZer (now discontinued web authoring application).

And Waterfox is built with clang which is slower than native Microsoft Visual Studio compiler.
So would I be correct in saying that Waterfox is basically Firefox with a different name? I'm not knowledgeable at all about the tech stuff you mention.

I will however be deciding which browser I will stick with and the only 2 options I am considering is Pale Moon and Waterfox. I would actually choose Brave but they are at the early stages of their development. Their privacy centric direction appeals to me a lot. They seem to be focused on that 100% and I am under the impression that Pale Moon and Waterfox are not so concerned with privacy because they don't do HTTPS etc.

I didn't know WF was built with clang. I thought it was Microsoft.

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adesh
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Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by adesh » 2017-08-30, 06:19

You are wrong actually when you say that Pale Moon is not concerned with privacy. I suggest you use the browser first and see if there is a privacy leak.
Maybe you prefer Brave bacause they block ads and trackers by default, that means altering the default browsing experience for all. I think Moonchild does not see the need of such feature in a browser and strives to provide a standard vanilla experience, as intended by the web authors, to the users. At the same time you are given the freedom to customize the browser to your needs. With the help of add-ons you can easlily achieve what Brave does.

Pale Moon is commited to security and privacy as much as Brave if not more. One reason that you don't see it as privacy focused because Moonchild doesn't brand it as such (while it is the whole selling point of Brave).
Pale Moon uses DuckDuckGo as default search engine, not Google. It also uses IP-API geolocation service instead of one provided by Google. There are more!
viewtopic.php?t=16155#p117417
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4972&p=30675#p30675
viewtopic.php?t=16154#p117375
Mouflonrouge wrote:they don't do HTTPS etc.
I don't understand what you exactly mean here, but from a technical perspective I'd say that Pale Moon has full support for HTTPS (SSL), and in fact more secure implementation than some of the dirty browsers that claim to most secure.

Finally, most important link in privacy chain is YOU!

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Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Giraffe » 2017-08-30, 07:33

I was using CF as my default browser, even after finding PM and installing it (can't use WF as this is a 32-bit system).
CF has the advantage of accepting all of the extensions that I want without modification or some alternative, but the things that I don't like with CF are:
takes ~5s to load and the same time to home page (Startpage Advanced)
uses a lot of memory cf. PM

A few months ago I managed to get PM set up as I want it (the closer in useability to Opera 12 the better) and swapped over to it.
I still have CF for testing if an 'awkward' site is browser or site and also Otter as a 'vanilla' browser for odd things and for interest.
Windows 7 Pro 32-bit. Comodo Internet security or Comodo Firewall + Avira Anivirus.

Mouflonrouge

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Mouflonrouge » 2017-08-30, 10:46

adesh wrote:You are wrong actually when you say that Pale Moon is not concerned with privacy. I suggest you use the browser first and see if there is a privacy leak.
Maybe you prefer Brave bacause they block ads and trackers by default, that means altering the default browsing experience for all. I think Moonchild does not see the need of such feature in a browser and strives to provide a standard vanilla experience, as intended by the web authors, to the users. At the same time you are given the freedom to customize the browser to your needs. With the help of add-ons you can easlily achieve what Brave does.

Pale Moon is commited to security and privacy as much as Brave if not more. One reason that you don't see it as privacy focused because Moonchild doesn't brand it as such (while it is the whole selling point of Brave).
Pale Moon uses DuckDuckGo as default search engine, not Google. It also uses IP-API geolocation service instead of one provided by Google. There are more!
viewtopic.php?t=16155#p117417
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4972&p=30675#p30675
viewtopic.php?t=16154#p117375
Mouflonrouge wrote:they don't do HTTPS etc.
I don't understand what you exactly mean here, but from a technical perspective I'd say that Pale Moon has full support for HTTPS (SSL), and in fact more secure implementation than some of the dirty browsers that claim to most secure.

Finally, most important link in privacy chain is YOU!
i don't think I said Pale Moon isn't concerned with privacy at all. If I did say it I didn't mean it. If PM wasn't focused on Safety at all, I wouldn't be using it at all.

I like Brave because it blocks ads and cookies. I just don't believe PM is as focused or as private as Brave, but I believe the user experience at PM is better than Brave. Pros and cons for each I guess.

We can use Duck Duck Go and Startpage with any browser. in the end, what is important is the Privacy user settings and configurations where we can choose what level of security and privacy suits us.

As for add ons, I am no fan of them. I consider them bloatware. i like things simple, so only want one or 2 add ons. I am your typical user that would only add Add Blocker add on and nothing else.

Mouflonrouge

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Mouflonrouge » 2017-08-30, 10:57

but since you mention add ons, the only add ons I have with PM are:
uBlock Origin
Kempelton Reloaded

I would love to know if there are any others I should add for privacy.

Latitude

Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by Latitude » 2017-08-30, 11:20

  • NoScript Security Suite
  • Greedy Cache -> If you're in limited internet quota.
For comfortable night mode viewing, I use:
  • Darkness (a dark theme)
  • Advanced Night Mode
All you could download from APO (addons.palemoon.org).

LegitimateGrapes
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Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by LegitimateGrapes » 2017-11-15, 01:25

Couldn't Cyberfox developer just let someone else take over?

I love Palemoon, but Cyberfox offers me compatibility with the latest versions of the extensions that I like to use. I thought about getting Waterfox but I looked into it very much.

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Re: The search for a default browser continues

Unread post by van p » 2017-11-15, 07:07

LegitimateGrapes wrote:Couldn't Cyberfox developer just let someone else take over?
I use Pale Moon, Waterfox, and Cyberfox. Can't remember everything that's been said on Cyberfox's forum about its end and don't want to look it up, but I think it's safe to say if somebody wanted to take it over that wouldn't be a problem. I think it's silly to stop using Cyberfox just because it may not be around forever; nobody knows what will happen. I'll use it as long as it's usable, I guess.

As for customizability (built into the browser, not addon type stuff), I'm certainly not familiar with every browser, but it's difficult to imagine anything exceeding CF's options. See the first page of the Customize panel below.
CFCustom.PNG
Windows 10 Pro x64 v22H2 8GB i5-4570|Pale Moon v33.0.1 x64

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