W3C erects DRM as web standard

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W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby Tomaso » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:04 pm


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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby Moonchild » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:26 pm

We saw that coming 2 years ago. Google wins.
Doesn't mean that people are forced to implement it; even though a standard status it's still controversial.

The W3C is a puppet of their paying members, and the vote for EME depends only on what their members vote for, most of whom will benefit from more than a handful of these "new standards", since they are likely members for commercial reasons if they hand over thousands of dollars a year to them:
That survey was sent out yesterday and member organizations, who pay an annual fee that varies from $2,250 for the smallest non-profits to $77,000 for larger corporations, will have until April 19 to register their opinions.
...
There is little opportunity for those bitterly opposed to the measure to stir up a grassroots campaign against the spec, due to the entry barriers for W3C membership and the fact that only members can vote on approval.

Needless to say, Pale Moon is not a member. I have better ways to spend such an annual "fee". The internet community at large will have no influence on this or any other decision on a "standard" that gets crafted by monolithic corps for their own benefit and then pushed through to apply to everything on the web (including the many FOSS and non-profits that aren't members).
Look up W3C drafts, and check how many have someone or multiple people from Google writing/editing it. You'll see how these W3C standards are more about corporations enforcing their influence by making "official standards" out of what they prefer, than actually creating net-neutral directives like they used to.

</rant>, sorry.
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby dark_moon » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:17 pm

Nice to read you see that the same way, Moonchild.

In the past the W3C make good stuff, but this isnt acceptable.
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby lyceus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:53 am

So basically we end like in the old times where you should build a site for MISE and another for Netscape, each one supporting different technologies, media and tools. Just change MISE for Chrome and Netscape for any other browser that survive the death of Firefox.

I still remember these miserable days where MSIE couldn't handle a png with transparency, for example. Grrr. The world do not goes forward, just run in circles. :(

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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby Moonchild » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:57 am

You got it Lyceus.

We went from browser-focused to standards focused, and now the standards are written by browser vendors so we're right back at browser-focused.
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby unhappycyandide » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:58 pm

Question: Does pale moon contain this eme/drm bs?

If yes how do I disable it, if no then another question: How is this drm being forcibly inserted into my pc? I can live without using google/youtube if using them means I get infected or are they distributing this unwanted "malware" everywhere online meaning simply connecting my pc online equals infection?

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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby Moonchild » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:11 pm

Pale Moon does not contain EME/DRM and will not contain it in the future, either.
See our roadmap.
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby STech » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:24 am

I see W3C has adopted EME as a HTML5 standard:
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/07/over-many-objections-w3c-approves-drm-for-html5/

Considering this, Palemoon will reconsider EME adoption in the future?

Currently Palemoon is the most portable (respectable) browser that I can use; Firefox is pseudo-portable, Vivaldi is to tied to chromium base code to even try, Opera is second after Palemoon as true portability, but has it's caveats.
I wish you can support EME in the future, even if it will be disabled by default. IMO the user has to decide about this. I personally really need it and I don't find another true portable browser to switch just because lack of EME support.

I'm a C developer and even I don't agree fully with Palemoon philosophy, I respect your and your friends work and devotement because I can't imagine how you can keep this projects alive and do such a good work.

thx

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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby Moonchild » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:03 am

It doesn't matter that the W3C (by pressure from its paying member votes) has erected it as a standard. Black box DRM does not belong in a browser (especially not in an Open Source one) and we will not be implementing it, no matter if it is an official standard.
It should be the user's choice to install software in their browser (if you want DRM, you can use, e.g., Silverlight that offers DRM, or other plugins). EME does not give this choice to the user, and instead forces the user to accept whatever unknown content decryption module the website wants to enforce. Implementing EME would mean enabling a broken rights system that punishes the wrong people. Our philosophy is indeed against that. Maybe we lose some relevancy for a percentage of users as a result, but that's just the way it is, then.

If EME is essential for your use of a web browser, then Pale Moon will not be a suitable choice for you.
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby Tomaso » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:44 am

STech wrote:W3C has adopted EME as a HTML5 standard

Really, who didn't see that one coming?

I totally agree with Moonchild.

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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby dark_moon » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:09 am

I fully agree with Moonchild and like the way he go :thumbup:
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby Bohandas » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:45 am

I agree with Moonchild as well. We can't give in to the demands of IP trolls and soulless corporate shills

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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby John connor » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:15 am

Tomaso wrote:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/22/w3c_drm_web_standard/



This is such a damn joke. I have to wonder if they know about all the wonderful ways to grab movies, TV shows, and music out there? FFS, I can get a hacked Amazon Firestick and stream free movies and what have you. These money grabbing clowns can piss off. They won't win this war. :lol:
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby half-moon » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:11 am

John connor wrote:
Tomaso wrote:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/22/w3c_drm_web_standard/



This is such a damn joke. I have to wonder if they know about all the wonderful ways to grab movies, TV shows, and music out there? FFS, I can get a hacked Amazon Firestick and stream free movies and what have you. These money grabbing clowns can piss off. They won't win this war. :lol:


What these companies can't seem to understand is that you can't make money off of a service you aint providing. It's almost like hollywood is allergic to money, but really it's more about power and control for these companies.

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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby John connor » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:29 am

Yeah, it's just like how asinine it is to have a radio playing in the background of your YouTube video and all of a sudden you get a copyright claim. Total non-sense! I must have had some kind of copyright video claim on YouTube and when I went to log into YouTube I got a message saying I needed to complete their "copyright school." Can you believe that! I just clicked through all the shit just so I could use my account again. Copyright school... Screw you! I think Facebook is just as bad. Don't dare upload anything with music or what ever.
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby Moonchild » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:50 pm

What's even worse is something I've seen first hand. You think that the artists who make the music see anything of these alleged copyright claims? Hell no. Musicians can count themselves lucky if they get a 2% cut of regular sales after signing over their rights to their performances to record labels -- that excludes anything that is sucked out of people in legal proceedings over copyright, because that's not part of royalties. That lost revenue from YT videos isn't actually "lost". Advertisers still pay for any ad displayed; it just flows to someone else, in this case whomever makes a claim, and is only lost to the other creative people involved (the vloggers, etc.).
So, who, really, is doing all this? The music industry; that's right, the people who get rich off of artists and performers. The musicians themselves are not involved (with the very rare exception), neither in making a claim (they can even be OK with it and the free advertising it brings for them), nor in receiving anything from the punishing dealt out by rich man's copyright lawyers.
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Re: W3C erects DRM as web standard

Postby John connor » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:08 am

Yep. That's what I have read before back in about '08 when the copyright BS of the RIAA and MPAA were really adamant about people posting YouTube videos on forums. It was so bad that a few forums I was a member of would give you an infraction or warning of you made a post with a copyrighted video. It had to be a video held by the record label or film industry. Like Universal or Sony, etc. Now you can freely post videos. Not sure what happened.
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