I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Anything related to the Android/mobile version of Pale Moon.

Moderator: satrow

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22326
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby Moonchild » Thu, 16 Apr 2015, 20:36

I've given this some serious thought, and there's a number of things in the mobile/Android that we simply don't have the capacity for in our relatively small community to support. All in all, Pale Moon for Android was initially a rush release because of Mozilla's sudden push for Firefox Accounts, and has never really had the intention of being thrust into widespread use that way without proper and slow growth and adaptation as the desktop browser has seen to settle on a feature set and direction that makes sense and actually adds value.

The main issues with PM4A as an actual released product:
  • Although using Gecko as a rendering back-end, the application itself is separate and written in an odd-one-out language that needs language skills we don't have in-house: java.
  • Android as a platform is rapidly evolving and maintaining compatibility with the full range (especially Lollipop+) is beyond the manpower available. If you look at, for example, bug #1030897 - the full Mozilla/mobile team has trouble keeping up with that, not something we can ever hope to match.
  • Mozilla's focus on the mobile platform would have them much more in their element than Pale Moon. And I'd rather not continue to have an "almost-acceptable" browser on there that would have to just hobble along trying to keep up, instead of an actual good product with a clear, defined presence.

Dropping the Android version will allow tighter focus on the desktop platforms, which I think will benefit Pale Moon as a whole. Please let me know your thoughts.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

Take note: 23 November is Wolfenoot! Eat roast meat and/or cake decorated like the full moon. #wolfenoot

SvenG

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby SvenG » Thu, 16 Apr 2015, 20:53

I am not using the Android version but I think it is reasonable to drop it. It would be nice to have but desktop Pale Moon is the core product and it's better to do just one thing and do it good or even better instead of spending time on projects that are hardly manageable and releasing a product that you are not happy with.

User avatar
Lunix
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon, 01 Jul 2013, 21:53

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby Lunix » Thu, 16 Apr 2015, 21:00

Stick to developing Pale Moon desktop versions only. Just go completely old school in your focus for PM, is my opinion.

User avatar
Sajadi
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri, 19 Apr 2013, 00:46

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby Sajadi » Thu, 16 Apr 2015, 21:08

If it supports the desktop version, i would say focus on the main priorities. At least that is my pov!

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed, 23 Jul 2014, 13:56
Location: New York

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby TwoTankAmin » Thu, 16 Apr 2015, 21:39

I do no mobile computing at all- no smart phone, tablet, not even a laptop. Desktop :thumbup:
“No one has ever become poor by giving.” Anonymous
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”" Daniel Patrick Moynihan
"The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it." Neil DeGrasse Tyson

User avatar
trava90
Contributing developer
Contributing developer
Posts: 1510
Joined: Mon, 20 May 2013, 18:19
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby trava90 » Thu, 16 Apr 2015, 21:54

My 2 cents: using up valuable time and resources to produce an "almost acceptable" product will take away time from the main product, which will probably eventually start to see a drop in quality, due to having less time to work on it.

(I do not have any Android devices, so take this fwiw)

User avatar
LimboSlam
Board Warrior
Board Warrior
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon, 09 Jun 2014, 04:43
Location: USA

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby LimboSlam » Thu, 16 Apr 2015, 23:58

You can't rush perfection, so do what you must. All in all it's still a better Firefox-based browser for Android. :thumbup:
With Pale Moon by my side, surfing the web is quite enjoyable and takes my headaches away! :)
God is not punishing you, He is preparing you. Trust His plan, not your pain.#‎TrentShelton #‎RehabTime

User avatar
x-15a2
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 825
Joined: Wed, 19 Mar 2014, 00:28
Location: Triskelion

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby x-15a2 » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 01:32

I'd be very sad if you were to terminate PM4A. I've used it since the earliest pre-βeta days and it's been my primary mobile browser from the start. The thing that I would miss the most is being able to sync between PM for my various desktops and PM4A. This syncing is very important to me, not sure what I'd do if PM4A was to go away.

I understand that not everyone uses Android mobile devices, so it's not important to them, but for those of us that do, PM4A is great.

User avatar
Supernova
Keeps coming back
Keeps coming back
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat, 29 Mar 2014, 17:13
Location: Somewhere

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby Supernova » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 01:35

Even a not polished version of PM4A is important for those who need sync between their mobile device and Pale Moon.
I only use the desktop browser, so I wouldn't be myself affected if PM4A was dropped, but I wouldn't like these needing the sync forced to leave.
Your political power is exactly equal to 0. That is... If you let those who steal it stealing peacefully.

User avatar
New Tobin Paradigm
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 4698
Joined: Tue, 09 Oct 2012, 19:37

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 03:01

With the Android Platform and the fact that Fennec is so much unlike the other rest of the codebase because Fennec is largely in java it may just not be sustainable without a dedicated person to manage it. We already have someone looking after Linux and Mac along side Moonchild (and whatever it is I do in the codebase) all working on common cross platform code. So maybe before any decision regarding Fennec is reached we should make a call out to the community for a android and java developers.

Such a person would need to know the ins and outs of the Android Platform and familiar with Java. I am sure when it comes to the common Mozilla code we all can help fill that gap if someone were able to fill the Android specific gap.

dark_moon

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby dark_moon » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 05:01

i use the mobile Version since beta too but never use sync.
if this would support the desktop Version More then yes stop the mobile Version.

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22326
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby Moonchild » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 07:36

I think as far as Sync goes, someone could revive the Sync 1.1 client as a Firefox extension to have data transfer completely secure...
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

Take note: 23 November is Wolfenoot! Eat roast meat and/or cake decorated like the full moon. #wolfenoot

squarefractal

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby squarefractal » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 08:46

I never understood why Pale Moon had a mobile version to begin with -- apart from the major browsers, no one really maintains two versions of browsers (look at other projects like Qupzilla, Midori, Otter-Browser, etc.) Just because it's in the source tree isn't a reason to start building it -- by that line of reasoning, the Pale Moon project should also use the b2g branch to build Pale Moon OS as well ;)

On top of this, there's the fact that it's fundamentally different than the rest of the Mozilla codebase, which (as Moonchild and Tobin said) diverts attention from the desktop browser, for which there's a major userbase.

Although, personally speaking, I will be only satisfied when Moonchild does "rm -rf mobile b2g && git commit -m "Exterminate unrelated branches" && git push origin master" ;)

User avatar
New Tobin Paradigm
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 4698
Joined: Tue, 09 Oct 2012, 19:37

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 09:20

Off-topic:
Removing things from the codebase isn't that easy.. There is a lot to clean up afterword.. Also I see no reason to remove the android version in the codebae in the foreseeable future.. /b2g and /browser/metro is a different thing of course..

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22326
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby Moonchild » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 09:36

I don't see a reason to remove it - people can still build the mobile browser if they wish, since it does have a use for some people, but I won't be giving it any attention in development so it may bitrot.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

Take note: 23 November is Wolfenoot! Eat roast meat and/or cake decorated like the full moon. #wolfenoot

User avatar
Moonchild
Pale Moon guru
Pale Moon guru
Posts: 22326
Joined: Sun, 28 Aug 2011, 17:27
Location: 58.5°N 15.5°E
Contact:

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby Moonchild » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 13:26

squarefractal wrote:I never understood why Pale Moon had a mobile version to begin with

Because people asked for it quite often! :)

Also, as stated, it was initially published primarily because Mozilla broke sync for us and moving to FxA was (and still is) not an alternative I'm willing to consider. If they had not done this, then Pale Moon for Android would likely have remained a project for the curious geeks among you.
Improving Mozilla code: You know you're on the right track with code changes when you spend the majority of your time deleting code.

"If you want to build a better world for yourself, you have to be willing to build one for everybody." -- Coyote Osborne

Take note: 23 November is Wolfenoot! Eat roast meat and/or cake decorated like the full moon. #wolfenoot

bugbod

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby bugbod » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 13:50

It can still be downloaded though?
I have an Android tablet that only has Google and I kept meaning to d/l Pale moon but haven't got round to it.

User avatar
Ozzed
Fanatic
Fanatic
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu, 08 May 2014, 11:37
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby Ozzed » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 13:57

Sad to hear it, but If there isn't enough manpower there isn't enough manpower so in the light of that it's probably a sane decision.

What would be the best option for me as I'm using sync between pale moon for desktop and android?

User avatar
New Tobin Paradigm
Knows the dark side
Knows the dark side
Posts: 4698
Joined: Tue, 09 Oct 2012, 19:37

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 14:18

On the note with sync.. The only way we could do it is a Pale Moon Sync add-on that would be a client implementation for Sync 1.1 for Firefox for Android done in the dreaded Add-ons SDK or at least bootstrapped. As XUL overlay add-ons cannot be done with Fennec because of its nature as a native android application. One that would not interfere with any calls for Firefox Sync.

I am sure it is completely possible to do as Weave was originally an add-on anyway though it is not something I want to do my self. Also this add-on would have to be written to current Firefox standards which means being subject to rabid release breakages.

User avatar
hundone
Apollo supporter
Apollo supporter
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon, 27 Oct 2014, 09:31
Location: Sweden

Re: I may have to let Pale Moon for Android go. :(

Unread postby hundone » Fri, 17 Apr 2015, 15:05

That's sad to hear. I had a good run with Pale Moon. It was a really good browser. :)


Return to “Pale Moon for Android”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest