Contributed builds for linux.

Support and discussions for the x86/x64 Linux version of Pale Moon and specific Linux distribution questions related to the browser.

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Drugwash
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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Drugwash » 2021-02-11, 22:16

Darn, how convoluted some operations are. But heck, it worked! Thank you very much for your help Kruppt! :thumbup:

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Kruppt » 2021-02-11, 22:22

Ok .. Great sorry if I made it sound more difficult than it actually is. :)

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Mike_Walsh » 2021-02-12, 00:58

@Moonraker :-

Well, my view is this; I - and a large part of the Puppy community - are very grateful to Steve for compiling his 32-bit Pale Moon builds. It's not an easy business, I know that much.....I certainly wouldn't attempt it myself. But it's ideal for Puppy, given the usual nature of the elderly hardware that tends to run it. :)

The only reason I convert it into a portable package is because it works so well with Puppy in that particular way.....as do all the 'portable' browser packages I maintain. And before anybody jumps in and starts bitching about "redistribution" and "brand labelling", etc, I'll say this; it hardly counts as 'redistribution', since in this particular set-up it won't work with anything except Puppy. The only access to the download link is through the Puppy Forum, and nobody except Puppy users are interested in that Forum anyway.....and everyone who does so knows what I do with browsers, etc. They all KNOW the 'Pale Moon' package is exactly that; Pale Moon, as original, unmodified, with just the addition of a couple of scripts that keep it self-contained and running from wherever it's located. And that doesn't exactly count as 'modification', now does it? :eh:

The experience it provides is untouched from its original intention.....simply re-packaged in a different way, to run in a specific fashion on one particular family of small, lightweight Linux 'hobbyist' distros.

Mike. ;)

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Moonchild » 2021-02-12, 11:45

Mike, It really is redistribution -- if it is shared among other users and not just yourself or a closed organization in a private sphere it does classify as redistribution, no matter how "unlikely people are to find it or use it"

There shouldn't be a problem however since you keep to the redistribution license intent, and you aren't bundling or altering the browser, merely providing a convenience repackaging specifically to run on puppy, which is explicitly allowed for Pale Moon in the redist license (point 3a-ii).
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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Drugwash » 2021-02-12, 13:20

Mike_Walsh wrote:
2021-02-12, 00:58
[...] the addition of a couple of scripts that keep it self-contained and running from wherever it's located.
Mike, would it be possible for you to create or share the very script that repackages the official PM package, along with the other two scripts, so that anyone could perform the repackaging by themselves? This would get rid of two issues: any redistribution-related nags, and quicker, easier publishing, saving storage space (a few kB or so vs dozens of MB).

Reason why I chimed in is that I'd be interested in those scripts in order to try and make a portable setup for myself on Mint Cinnamon. Since I'm dealing with many "hacked" add-ons I'm still running 28.17.0 as main browser while testing the new 29.x line, and I really really wouldn't want to accidentally corrupt the main profile. A completely portable package of v29 would ease my mind.

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Mike_Walsh » 2021-02-25, 18:36

Moonchild wrote:
2021-02-12, 11:45
Mike, It really is redistribution -- if it is shared among other users and not just yourself or a closed organization in a private sphere it does classify as redistribution, no matter how "unlikely people are to find it or use it"

There shouldn't be a problem however since you keep to the redistribution license intent, and you aren't bundling or altering the browser, merely providing a convenience repackaging specifically to run on puppy, which is explicitly allowed for Pale Moon in the redist license (point 3a-ii).
@ Moonchild:-

Thanks for the clarification on that point.

I do scan the Pale Moon forum quite regularly, even though I don't tend to contribute that often. The Puppy Linux Forums, and my moderating work over at BleepingComputer.com, tend to keep me fairly well occupied...

However, I have wondered about the point on a few occasions. The main reason I 'portabilize' so many browsers for use with Puppy is simple; the hardware many Puppians run Puppy ON is very often stuff that most people would have chucked in the trash years before. With Puppy being so lightweight, it'll run on gear that would balk at running even old versions of Windows. Often hard drives are non-existent - Puppy runs entirely from flash, loading fully into a virtual RAMdisk from highly-compressed read-only files for the session, so this is not really an issue. The combination of hardware 'workarounds' some of our members come up with are really rather ingenious on occasion!

Given this, the ability to run not only browsers, but many other apps as well, from another flash-drive or external HDD, totally outside the OS, is quite advantageous. I have no wish to modify PM in any way; it works fine for us, and has for years been one of the most popular browsers for Puppy by a mile.

Yes, it probably DOES count as 'redistribution', although highly localized, within a 'closed' community for a specific distro. Its main function in this format is merely to help the guys keep their old hardware functional, that's all.....as well as making it easier for them to do so.

Cheers.

Mike. ;)
Last edited by Mike_Walsh on 2021-02-25, 23:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Mike_Walsh » 2021-02-25, 19:57

Drugwash wrote:
2021-02-12, 13:20
Mike_Walsh wrote:
2021-02-12, 00:58
[...] the addition of a couple of scripts that keep it self-contained and running from wherever it's located.
Mike, would it be possible for you to create or share the very script that repackages the official PM package, along with the other two scripts, so that anyone could perform the repackaging by themselves? This would get rid of two issues: any redistribution-related nags, and quicker, easier publishing, saving storage space (a few kB or so vs dozens of MB).

Reason why I chimed in is that I'd be interested in those scripts in order to try and make a portable setup for myself on Mint Cinnamon. Since I'm dealing with many "hacked" add-ons I'm still running 28.17.0 as main browser while testing the new 29.x line, and I really really wouldn't want to accidentally corrupt the main profile. A completely portable package of v29 would ease my mind.
@ Drugwash:-

Mm. Okay.

Well, I've no compunctions about sharing the actual launch script, since this has been in the public domain in various modified formats for a long time. All this is really doing is saving you a detailed web-search to find it.

-----------------------------------

Do bear in mind one thing, please. We do things rather differently in Puppyland. Unlike users of mainstream distros, who are used to running clever, complicated scripts that do everything for them via the terminal, this last item doesn't see that much use in Puppy. Most of us are used to diving directly into the file-system & physically moving/changing/altering/linking items to suit us. Y'see, Puppy is primarily a 'hobbyist' distro, for folks who WANT to tear their system to pieces and re-build it to suit themselves. Which probably doesn't make much sense to you.....

Neither would the fact that since Pup is a single-user system, we don't use 'sudo' & carefully-segregated user directories. Pup runs as /root, ALL THE TIME (*horrors!*); where's the point in needing to ask the system's permission to run your own machine..? :roll:

Anyway...

----------------------------------------

Place the attached 'plmn' script directly inside the 'palemoon' directory. By clicking on this - make sure it's executable, and you've got the correct permissions to do so - it'll create a directory inside the 'palemoon' directory, called, quite simply, 'profile'. Instead of creating a new, uniquely-numbered profile directory in your user directory, by means of using the '-profile' option on the exec line it will instead write the profile to this directory instead.....and provided you always start it from the 'plmn' script, it will always use the self-contained profile.

(You'll probably want to remove the 'LD_LIBRARY_PATH' bit; we use the apulse libraries in Puppy to fool the system into thinking we run PulseAudio.....where in actual fact Puppy is pure ALSA. Always has been, always will be.)

What I then do is to place the 'palemoon' directory inside a second directory along with a simple script, prominently-labelled 'LAUNCH', which merely points to the 'plmn' script one level further in. This directory is then labelled 'Pale_Moon-portable', and this is what I turn into a tarball (along with MD5sum), and share with the community.

The 'LAUNCH' script is mainly for the benefit of some of our less 'tech-savvy' users; makes it easier for them to see what they're doing!

The benefit of this arrangement is that you can run this 'Pale_Moon-portable' from literally anywhere you want.....so long as you have the ownership/exec permissions set correctly.

That's the theory, anyway.....

----------------------

'plmn' script:-

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
#
#LAUNCHDIR="$(cd "$(dirname "$0")"; pwd)"
LAUNCHDIR="$(dirname "$(readlink -f "$0")")"
mkdir "$LAUNCHDIR/profile" 2> /dev/null
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LAUNCHDIR/apulse${LD_LIBRARY_PATH:+:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH} "$LAUNCHDIR/palemoon" "$@" -profile "$LAUNCHDIR/profile"
'LAUNCH' script:-

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
#
# Launcher for 'portable' Pale Moon browser
#
HERE="$(dirname "$(readlink -f "$0")")"

"$HERE/palemoon/plmn" "$@"
---------------------------

If Moonchild is not happy with me publishing this, I'm quite content to remove it.

Mike. ;)
Attachments
LAUNCH.gz
Outer 'launcher'....points to 'plmn'. (Remove the fake '.gz')
(125 Bytes) Downloaded 3 times
plmn.gz
Actual 'portable' launch script... (Remove the fake'.gz')
(266 Bytes) Downloaded 2 times

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Drugwash » 2021-02-25, 22:27

Thank you very much Mike for your kind and detailed explanation along with the scripts. I do understand your concerns and please rest assured I would never hold you reliable for anything that may go wrong in my tests.
Off-topic:
As a funny aside, I remember an experiment run many years ago. Maybe not as many as I might think. I had downloaded a small image of a Tiger Puppy Linux and burned it to a mini CD (200MB disk). Thought it should run fine at such tiny size. But... the machine I tested it on was a non-MMX Pentium 100MHz with... dunno... 64MB of RAM and a... 1MB (?) videocard. A lame system much better suited for ancient DOS games or something. However the goddamn Puppy launched fine and tried to do its thing as best as possible. Never complained about anything. Problem is, that Tiger had compiz enabled by default. So any window operations - don't ask how much it took for any window to become visible and operational - such as move or close would take an awful lot of time and run in like slow-motion. But, I repeat: it never complained, never bailed out. So, ever since I have the uttermost respect for Puppy distros. May them live and thrive for as long as there is at least one person in this world that needs them! :clap:
Last edited by Drugwash on 2021-02-25, 23:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Mike_Walsh » 2021-02-25, 23:18

@ Drugwash :-

Just FYI, the actual launch script was, so I believe, originally developed by someone, long ago, for Firefox itself. But; since all 'zilla-based browsers (& forks) are still built in almost exactly the same way as those very early releases, when Netscape Navigator was morphing into early Firefox, you can drop this script into into any 'zilla derivative you like, of any vintage. With judicious editing, it'll work in all of them.

For the hell of it, a few months ago I turned a very early Firefox 3.6, from 2010, into a 'portable' - just to see if that principle held true. It fired straight up.....

Mike. ;)

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Drugwash » 2021-02-25, 23:36

Off-topic:
Mike_Walsh wrote:
2021-02-25, 23:18
For the hell of it, a few months ago I turned a very early Firefox 3.6, from 2010, into a 'portable' - just to see if that principle held true. It fired straight up.....
Funny how certain things remain the same while others - usually the critical ones - don't. ;)

I do rememeber, fuzzily, the early days when I did choose Netscape Navigator over other browsers, at that time. Seems like a lifetime ago now.

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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Moonchild » 2021-02-26, 00:07

Mike_Walsh wrote:
2021-02-25, 19:57
If Moonchild is not happy with me publishing this, I'm quite content to remove it.
Like I already said I'm fine with it.
If a "portable" setup is more advantageous for puppy users then by all means use the browser's feature to make it so.
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Re: Contributed builds for linux.

Post by Mike_Walsh » 2021-02-26, 01:33

Moonchild wrote:
2021-02-26, 00:07
Mike_Walsh wrote:
2021-02-25, 19:57
If Moonchild is not happy with me publishing this, I'm quite content to remove it.
Like I already said I'm fine with it.
If a "portable" setup is more advantageous for puppy users then by all means use the browser's feature to make it so.
That's much appreciated, Moonchild. Fair enough. Onwards & upwards.... :thumbup:

Mike. ;)

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