Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

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adesh
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Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by adesh » 2019-07-05, 17:40

Check these links:
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... -that-bad/
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... takeovers/

There is an image below the page heading. Try to scroll the page using up/down arrow keys or mouse wheel when the images is in view. The page doesn't want to move and CPU spikes.

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davide
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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by davide » 2019-07-05, 18:08

If you have an openGL 2.x video card, these are properly supported only by the most recent firefox.

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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-07-05, 20:00

davide wrote:
2019-07-05, 18:08
If you have an openGL 2.x video card, these are properly supported only by the most recent firefox.
Sorry but that just has no bearing at all on Pale Moon (Which uses DirectX, to begin with). it also has nothing to do with this topic.
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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by davide » 2019-07-05, 20:48

The subforum is Pale Moon for Linux, I assume openGL is used under Linux, not DirectX. Further, assuming a degree of similarity between Palemoon and pre-quantum Firefox, one of the possible causes for choppy scrolling under Firefox for linux was that the intel i915 video driver, very common on older notebooks, execute openGL 3.x and 4.x instructions under CPU emulation, and 2.x instructions under the hardware via DRI. Only the most recent versions of Firefox have good support for openGL 2.x and allow smooth rendering under old video hardware.

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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-07-05, 23:56

What Firefox does or doesn't do in its recent builds has no bearing on Pale Moon and at the very least was very premature.
Your remark is irrelevant and won't do anything but generate noise. Do we even know what kind of hardware the OP has? Nope.
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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by Isengrim » 2019-07-06, 01:07

For reference, I get some choppy scrolling on the first link, less on the second. I also get some increased CPU activity on the first link and less on the second. My hardware isn't old by any means - GTX 970 and nvidia drivers on Mint 19.1. The page doesn't completely grind to a halt, though.
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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by smoki » 2019-07-06, 08:15

Isengrim wrote:
2019-07-06, 01:07
For reference, I get some choppy scrolling on the first link, less on the second. I also get some increased CPU activity on the first link and less on the second.
Same for me, using AMDGPU driver. But i think this is too much lag really :thumbdown:

Since fixes for intel since 28.6.0 seems now also slowdown else it is probably better to revert questionable xrender fix for intel, but to disable xrender by default...

Of course i am not sure in this since i don't have all the hardware, just it sounds like do not try to be smart in the jungle was always definition of safe fix for everybody :lol:

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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by adesh » 2019-07-06, 12:04

Isengrim wrote:
2019-07-06, 01:07
The page doesn't completely grind to a halt, though.
Yes, page doesn't grind to a halt but scrolling has a lot of lag while the image is in the viewport. Also, I'm using old Intel hardware and also not too powerful, so yes I may be getting more lag.
But as you told, even with your modern hardware, there is some lag. So, there is some problem with the site or the handling by Pale Moon.

Graphics (if you need): Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset x86/MMX/SSE2

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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by davide » 2019-07-06, 13:01

adesh wrote:
2019-07-06, 12:04
Yes, page doesn't grind to a halt but scrolling has a lot of lag while the image is in the viewport. Also, I'm using old Intel hardware and also not too powerful, so yes I may be getting more lag.
But as you told, even with your modern hardware, there is some lag. So, there is some problem with the site or the handling by Pale Moon.

Graphics (if you need): Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset x86/MMX/SSE2

You are using the i915 driver. If your kernel uses modules, you can confirm that the driver is active by:

Code: Select all

$ lsmod | grep i915
The only browser which properly handles this driver and offers smooth page scrolling and video playback under GM45 is Firefox on the latest versions. But even with Firefox, some custom configuration is required to disable CPU emulation and enable direct rendering. I'm probably not allowed to share such instructions here on this forum due to aggressive off-topic policing. Please Moonchild advise if I can proceed.

Meanwhile, regardless of your browser, you want to ensure your userspace has access to direct rendering. What is your output for:

Code: Select all

$ glxinfo | grep "direct rendering"

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adesh
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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by adesh » 2019-07-06, 16:21

Of course, direct rendering is enabled.

Code: Select all

$ glxinfo | grep "direct rendering"
direct rendering: Yes

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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by davide » 2019-07-06, 16:57

Userspace direct rendering is the most complicated requirement to set up in case it is not active, luckily you have that already settled.

However, I believe Palemoon has no adequate openGL 2.x support suitable for these old video cards, as it was the case for pre-quantum Firefox. To be sure, the best person to ask about openGL implementation under Palemoon, and on how to fine tune its rendering performance, appears to be Moonchild.

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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by Moonchild » 2019-07-07, 12:25

davide wrote:
2019-07-06, 16:57
To be sure, the best person to ask about openGL implementation under Palemoon, and on how to fine tune its rendering performance, appears to be Moonchild.
I'm sorry but I'm not the right person to ask about this. My focus is the Windows operating system, not specific hardware acceleration issues on Linux on ageing hardware.
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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by plushkava » 2019-07-14, 05:49

davide wrote:
2019-07-05, 20:48
The subforum is Pale Moon for Linux, I assume openGL is used under Linux, not DirectX. Further, assuming a degree of similarity between Palemoon and pre-quantum Firefox, one of the possible causes for choppy scrolling under Firefox for linux was that the intel i915 video driver, very common on older notebooks, execute openGL 3.x and 4.x instructions under CPU emulation, and 2.x instructions under the hardware via DRI. Only the most recent versions of Firefox have good support for openGL 2.x and allow smooth rendering under old video hardware.
These are interesting points but keep in mind that, while running on Linux, Pale Moon doesn't use OpenGL for internal compositing unless the layers.acceleration.force-enabled preference is enabled. The desktop environment and/or window manager itself may also feature an OpenGL-using compositor, of course.

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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by cosmo666 » 2019-07-14, 23:31

This is such a great project. But I frequently find myself wondering why things are so sluggish. I wish had some way of identifying the bottlenecks, possibly a profiler I could turn on for a minute or so that would give some clue. Is Basilisk any 'leaner' than Pmoon? Regardless, this is one of the best managed & supported projects I've used, very much appreciate the coordination & support of the add-ons.

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Re: Very slow and intensive scrolling at Ars Technica

Unread post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2019-07-14, 23:46

Basilisk is a fair bit heavier and more complex than Pale Moon due to the Australis Bullshit Technology it retains.
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