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Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-06, 10:58
by moonbob69
My new Palemoon [32bit ver. 27.6.1, Xenial7.5(puppy) linux] was working fine with 2 windows of palemoon.org and forum.palemoon.org, 6 tabs total I think, and 5 other inactive windows in tray. After disabling IP connection and coming back 8+ hrs later, I found a very sluggish X desktop (3-5 seconds to min/max window in tray, 1+ sec to move a window) and any PM window on desktop still blank inside after 5 minutes. Htop showed CPU continuously 100%, 2 to 8 processes active, with Palemoon process always from 30 to 60% CPU.

Killed one PM window by right-click from tray; both disappeared, then 1 min. later the PM process, still showing from 30 to 46% CPU, disappeared from Htop and everything worked fine, with total CPU 2-4%.

Previous post "sluggish if left open" mentioned hardware acceleration. I couldn't find a setting for that under either Edit-preferences or about:config (but Edit-find was not available to help).

Another post "becoming sluggish as the day progesses" mentioned a bug in garbage collection. But in this instance it hadn't done any new input processing. What could it have been doing?

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-06, 11:45
by Moonchild
What most likely happened is that the pages you left open while being away leaked memory through on-page scripting. If page scripting does not properly clean up after itself, the garbage collector and cycle collector will try and fail to reclaim this memory which can eventually result in a "GC loop" where memory pressure demands release of memory, the garbage collector tries to free it by going over gigabytes of leaked objects, failing to release much if anything, and the situation remaining unchanged, triggering another GC run, and so on. This can easily saturate the processor and make the browser completely unresponsive if persisted.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-06, 14:05
by Lucio Chiappetti
Could it be a twitter loop or other script loop which interferes with an ad blocker ? I had a similar problem with out local transport agency which has an iframe with some twitter stuff, and that was causing continuous loop. See https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.ph ... 89#p155789

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-06, 23:18
by moonbob69
Event did not repeat today, with only 1 window/1 tab while unconnected. But before event described above, PM had encountered several pages that were unfriendly, and the "Stop" button had been clicked. My recollection is that "Stop" did not stop them right away, and some times they started up again and required stopping again.

How does the fact that this occurred with no connection/new data differ from the other instances of sluggishness with more pages read and scripts run?

If a page has a refresh or other element, what things are done that might be using up memory when no connection exists?

How much trouble would it be to have a "stop everything" button that stops scripts and forces no changes or reloads at all to what is already rendered?

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-07, 00:33
by Nigaikaze
moonbob69 wrote:How much trouble would it be to have a "stop everything" button
Pale Moon already has that: Shift + Esc.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-07, 00:47
by therube
Pale Moon already has that: Shift + Esc.
What is that, what does that do?
Oh, Shift+ESC, in PM, stops animated GIFs.
(ESC is SeaMonkey. Out of luck in FF ;-).)

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-07, 00:56
by therube
2 windows of palemoon.org and forum.palemoon.org, 6 tabs total I think, and 5 other inactive windows in tray
Explain that?
So 1 window was palemoon.org.
A 2nd window was forum.palemoon.org.

And the 6 tabs, they were only from "palemoon.org".
Was any of the pages, http://start.palemoon.org/ ?

And then the "5 other inactive windows".

What were they, & how were they made "inactive"?

What extensions are you running?

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-07, 09:00
by moonbob69
>Explain that?
Since the Palemoon windows wouldn't re-paint, I just had the titles. "forum.palemoon.org" had 4 tabs of different posts; "palemoon.org" had 2 tabs, one might have been something else before I started looking at Palemoon.org. I believe the 2nd window got opened because the Forum link on the main page opened it. The other 5 minimized windows were: filesystem viewer showing a directory, Frisbee wifi scanner (which when maximized was only 1/3 redrawn, but was inactive bacause the wifi adapter was turned off), Gearny with a saved text file, the SSH GUI start window (the SSH session had been closed, but the window has the Telnet address if I wanted to re-start it), and HTOP process viewer. Except for HTOP, they were "inactive" because they weren't doing anything.

My Palemoon is from the Puppy CD, no add-ons.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-07, 21:56
by Moonchild
therube wrote: Oh, Shift+ESC, in PM, stops animated GIFs.
No, it stops animated gifs and all other (most notably network) activity (including background network).

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 00:03
by mr tribute
Moderator note: off-topic extension advertisement removed

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 05:22
by 01101001b
moonbob69 wrote:My new Palemoon [32bit ver. 27.6.1, Xenial7.5(puppy) linux]
Update your PM. Version 27.6.1 is a bit old (28.3.1 is current version), and yes, I use a puppy derivative (Dpup). Although I never had exactly the problem you mentioned, I did have in a few occasions (while using LxPupXenial and later LxPupArtful),(random) problems related to X server BUT in appearance caused by Pale Moon (when truth is it was the other way around).

In my case, trouble was related to the nouveau driver (I don't know what graphics card you have, mine is an nvidia one, obviously). Only when I installed nvidia drivers, problems seemingly related to Pale Moon dissapeared at last.

Regards!

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 09:13
by moonbob69
No, it stops animated gifs and all other (most notably network) activity (including background network).
So that includes scripts still running without any network activity?

What triggers the "Script not responding" box? Only scripts waiting for something? Does the "Stop Script" button there require script to not have control or be running?

Had another instance of 100% cpu use immediately from a bad site, Shift-Esc didn't seem to do anything.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 09:17
by Moonchild
moonbob69 wrote:So that includes scripts still running without any network activity?
No, it doesn't stop scripts -- but it may break them if they rely on background traffic.

With "activity" I mean all navigation/download-related activity (since animated gifs are considered a download stream that is why their animation is stopped)

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 20:59
by mr tribute
Moonchild wrote:
moonbob69 wrote:So that includes scripts still running without any network activity?
No, it doesn't stop scripts -- but it may break them if they rely on background traffic.

With "activity" I mean all navigation/download-related activity (since animated gifs are considered a download stream that is why their animation is stopped)
So I posted a link to a Pale Moon add-on that does the above by clicking a stop button instead of using a key combo. I tried to be helpful, but got a warning instead. I described it as the Firefox 3 look, because Firefox 3 had a separate stop button, which was removed in Firefox 4+ and Pale Moon. By adding this extension you regain that functionality.

https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/active-stop-button/

I thought the name of the add-on was pretty self-explanatory, but for some reason this post was seen as
Completely off-topic advertising for an extension
I do feel the need to point out why I got a warning so that others can learn from it and realize I wasn't posting off-topic.
Nothing in your post made clear that it was in any way related or that that was what it did -- which means it would fall under the board rule to properly describe what you link to.
As you see a link to a Pale Moon add-on and a couple of non-descriptive sentences (Firefox 3 look, gain functionality) can be enough to get you a warning here.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 21:58
by moonbob69
So I posted a link to a Pale Moon add-on that does the above
Fortunately, I did see that link before it was removed, and believe that it was on-topic. But from the info given, it did not seem to do anything more than the regular stop button and "shift-esc", just with a full-time button.

Is there any add-on that can stop scripts; load/not-load-images button(instead of preferences); click on unloaded image to load it; load/not-load any foreign-URL elements?

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 22:04
by Moonchild
What exactly is your reason for such a spiteful post, mr. tribute? Seriously, I explained everything to you in a private message.

If you post "here is this add-on that gives you a firefox 3 alike button" + a link, then that has nothing at all to do with this topic.

Even if meant well it's still not describing the link properly (forum rules). i gave you the freedom to re-post properly describing it after your explanation indicated the REAL functionality of this add-on, but then you go ahead and add a bunch of junk to your post point fingers to staff here for your warning which in all respects was correctly issued. If you have a problem with the way this was moderated then making a public fuss about it is NOT the proper way to do it. You should know this. Use your brain and some common sense.

Seriously.

As for the add-on, no it doesn't do anything more than what Shift+Esc does, as far as I can tell, just with a clickable button instead of the key combo -- so it doesn't really add anything.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 23:04
by mr tribute
Moonchild wrote:What exactly is your reason for such a spiteful post, mr. tribute? Seriously, I explained everything to you in a private message.

If you post "here is this add-on that gives you a firefox 3 alike button" + a link, then that has nothing at all to do with this topic.

Even if meant well it's still not describing the link properly (forum rules). i gave you the freedom to re-post properly describing it after your explanation indicated the REAL functionality of this add-on, but then you go ahead and add a bunch of junk to your post point fingers to staff here for your warning which in all respects was correctly issued. If you have a problem with the way this was moderated then making a public fuss about it is NOT the proper way to do it. You should know this. Use your brain and some common sense.

Seriously.

As for the add-on, no it doesn't do anything more than what Shift+Esc does, as far as I can tell, just with a clickable button instead of the key combo -- so it doesn't really add anything.
I stated the facts and nothing but the facts. This benefits the Pale Moon community, because things like this can come as a surprise to any Pale Moon forum member. Now other members can look at this and make sure they follow the forum rules better.

I didn't want people to think that I posted off-topic, because I didn't. And I wanted you to defend this warning, because I didn't know if you were serious or not. It seems you think this warning was accurate and if that's the case, it's your forum and your rules. It's good that these rules become common knowledge among Pale Moon forum members.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-08, 23:41
by Nigaikaze
Off-topic:
mr tribute wrote:This benefits the Pale Moon community
As a member of the community, I have to disagree. Something like this is best resolved privately. Airing your dirty laundy out in public like this makes you look like all you want to do is stir things up further.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-09, 10:13
by Moonchild
Off-topic:
mr tribute wrote:This benefits the Pale Moon community,
It most definitely does not, certainly not if you word it in a way "Be aware that I did something normal and it got me a warning", insinuating staff is being disproportionate about what warnings are given for. All of this can be read (and will be read) by people in different ways, especially if not all context is given. On top, it's just a warning - warnings expire and action isn't taken unless you're getting multiple warnings. Escalating getting a warning like this in public will get you more warnings, by the way, because it serves nobody.

Our moderation is fair, and I will not have this kind of insinuations influence the objectivity of moderation of posts, so please stop.
As stated these things should (and initially were) resolved in private. Your response to it in a public post was a faux pas. Please don't do it again.

Re: Extremely busy if left idle

Posted: 2019-02-09, 10:17
by New Tobin Paradigm
Off-topic:
Sure is late 2016/early 2017 in here..