palemoon for new users

Support and discussions for the x86/x64 Linux version of Pale Moon.

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bushrat999
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palemoon for new users

Postby bushrat999 » Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 03:54

I'm a Windows refugee, new to Puppy Linux so everything is new to me.

I have already received great help from other posters on the topic of booting Puppy Linux. They were very generous with their time and I'm sure there are just as many generous and knowledgeable Palemoon posters who know all the answers to my questions... but for the love of God why is there not a beginners introduction to ANY of the major apps Puppy Linux provides? Why is it necessary to have to trawl through hundreds of posts in many different places to get fundamental issues explained? How nice would it be if for instance there was a clear SINGLE article headed "How to download and install a new application program in Puppy" showing step by step free of Linux jargon using a simple example of a new app being installed. One clear example would make hundreds of posts unneccessary and save new users hours of nothing but frustration. Linux stuff is brilliant, I'm a big fan, but it's still an uphill battle finding solutions to issues which really shouldn't be issues in the first place.

If anyone is still interested, the first of my Palemoon problems:
1. Palemoon is not faithfully rendering website formats - so there are sometimes screen artifacts where there shouldn't be any e.g. short vertical lines appearing because Palemoon is not understanding host site format. Or text appears scrunched up... minor stuff but it shouldn't be happening.

I'll leave it there for now. i'd be grateful for any assistance.
Thanks.

bushrat999
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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby bushrat999 » Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 06:58

Palemoon needs two additional forums within its scope.
1. a feedback forum to administration for suggestions etc.
2. A forum for BEGINNERS which is subdivided into the different categories of problems new users might encounter - it wouldn't be that hard to implement?
Too many disparate topics are bundled together in some Palemoon forums.

(2.) IMO is essential. Whilst I'm full of praise for all those who donate their time to things Palemoon/Linux they are ####ing against the wind if their efforts are not reaching the right people, or if needed information is buried so obscurely and overlaid by hundreds of non-relevant posts that would-be users just give up...

I'll give one simple non-Palemoon example: I joined the forum today so I submitted my first post. I then went looking for it in the forum - it wasn't there. I looked in my profile it said (0) posts - but hang on I just posted one? However, buried in another forum under 'Terms of this forum' is the bolded message to the effect that a new poster's first message may take several hours to vet. Vetting is fine, even if there were a 24-hr embargo. But that warning message should be given as a new poster is signing on as a new subscriber and not in some forum they haven't even visited yet leaving them wondering where their first post has disappeared to.

I'm a long time user of Firefox so Palemoon's appearance and structure doesn't look that much different from what I'm used to, but Palemoon is not performing exactly as I'm sure it should do. Hoping someone can help with previous post by suggestions about fiddling with Palemoon set-up.

Thanks.

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby WilliamK » Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 07:02

bushrat999 wrote:buried in another forum under 'Terms of this forum' is the bolded message to the effect that a new poster's first message may take several hours to vet. Vetting is fine, even if there were a 24-hr embargo.


Do other web browsers provide such an open forum?

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby satrow » Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 08:38

Terms of this website sticky.
Since people apparently don't read before clicking "I agree" when they register here, and it's a little cumbersome to call them up later on, I'm posting a copy here of the registration terms and informational text.

...


Would you like us to discontinue browser development to act on your suggestions and deal with the extra work involved in dealing with their ongoing upkeep, or are you volunteering to help with them?

Tips: read and discover, the search box (above right) is useful - failing that, use a suitable search term and site:palemoon.org, or site:forum.palemoon.org in your Internet search engine of choice. Examples: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=palemoon&q=us ... org&ia=web and https://duckduckgo.com/?q=use+a+suitabl ... oon&ia=web

Sorry that I don't have the answers to your Puppy/Pale Moon -specific queries, I rarely use Linux. Maybe a search would help you gain additional clues or details you could furnish (like hardware details maybe?) to enable a rapid reply from someone more familiar with your OS.

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby Night Wing » Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 13:26

bushrat999 wrote:I'll give one simple non-Palemoon example: I joined the forum today so I submitted my first post. I then went looking for it in the forum - it wasn't there. I looked in my profile it said (0) posts - but hang on I just posted one? However, buried in another forum under 'Terms of this forum' is the bolded message to the effect that a new poster's first message may take several hours to vet. Vetting is fine, even if there were a 24-hr embargo. But that warning message should be given as a new poster is signing on as a new subscriber and not in some forum they haven't even visited yet leaving them wondering where their first post has disappeared to.


Any user who registers to become a member of the Pale Moon forum, their first "3" posts have to be approved by an moderator or Moonchild before the post can be publicly seen on the forum. This keeps the spammers at bay. Usually, when a new user posts their first post, there is a warning it wont' be seen. I got this disclaimer when I joined the Pale Moon forum 6 1/2 years ago.

But most new users, after registering, they make a post, hit the Submit button and then they can't find their post. They don't read what comes after the Submit button. They are in a big hurry. Now I don't know if the disclaimer is still there, but like I said, it was there when I became a registered member.
Linux Mint 18.3 (Sylvia) Xfce 64-Bit (Default OS) with 64-Bit linux Pale Moon
Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit (Backup OS) with 32-Bit windows Pale Moon

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Night Wing
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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby Night Wing » Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 13:50

bushrat999 wrote:I'm a Windows refugee, new to Puppy Linux so everything is new to me.

I have already received great help from other posters on the topic of booting Puppy Linux. They were very generous with their time and I'm sure there are just as many generous and knowledgeable Palemoon posters who know all the answers to my questions... but for the love of God why is there not a beginners introduction to ANY of the major apps Puppy Linux provides? Why is it necessary to have to trawl through hundreds of posts in many different places to get fundamental issues explained? How nice would it be if for instance there was a clear SINGLE article headed "How to download and install a new application program in Puppy" showing step by step free of Linux jargon using a simple example of a new app being installed. One clear example would make hundreds of posts unneccessary and save new users hours of nothing but frustration. Linux stuff is brilliant, I'm a big fan, but it's still an uphill battle finding solutions to issues which really shouldn't be issues in the first place.


When dealing with linux distros, the commands to install things are not universal for all of the linux distros. As an example, when using the linux Terminal which is command line driven, installing a program in Arch linux is different than installing it in linux Mint because the commands are different.

I'm not a fan of the linux Terminal. I've used the command line terminal in linux Mint four times in six years. Since I use linux Mint in the Xfce desktop environment, my linux Pale Moon is "not" installed. Therefore Pale Moon is "not" listed in my Mint menu. I basically learned how to make a Pale Moon launcher icon in Xfce using gui windows and once I've created the PM launcher icon, this is how I start Pale Moon. If you want to see what my panel taskbar looks like, head on over to the General Discussion forum, find the topic titled, "What my Pale Moon looks like" and find my post with a screenshot of what my Pale Moon looks like and you'll see the Pale Moon launcher icon I created. It is on the right side of the Panel taskbar. And I would start with the "last" page in the topic thread and work backwords because I've made a few changes to the look of my Pale Moon over time.

But the method I used to create the launcher icon in Mint probably won't work in Puppy. This is just the nature of the different linux distros.
Linux Mint 18.3 (Sylvia) Xfce 64-Bit (Default OS) with 64-Bit linux Pale Moon
Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit (Backup OS) with 32-Bit windows Pale Moon

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby gracious1 » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 02:23

bushrat999 wrote:1. Palemoon is not faithfully rendering website formats - so there are sometimes screen artifacts where there shouldn't be any e.g. short vertical lines appearing because Palemoon is not understanding host site format. Or text appears scrunched up... minor stuff but it shouldn't be happening.


Please give examples with URLs. We cannot help you if we cannot test the pages for ourselves. Also include screenshots if you know how to take them with your distro.

Cheers.
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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby bushrat999 » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 03:57

@gracious
I purposely didn't give specific examples of Palemoon not rendering precisely because I thought it might merely be a question of fiddling with options in the app?
The rendering problem appears across all sites.

Thanks for all your replies.

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby bushrat999 » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 04:06

@satrow
I fully acknowledge all the time and work put into Linux by all concerned and really I'm a big fan of Linux in general.

Unfortunately Linux remains light years away from being useful to newcomers, no matter that it has improved significantly in that regard over the years...

This isn't the place to get into this discussion but another example is Puppy Linux file system. Are beginners supposed to know the file structure of this distro by clairvoyance? the Help icon on the desktop doesn't even refer to Puppy's file structure and how to work with files?...

Thanks for your reply.

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby fillerup » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 10:43

please provide a screenshot of the issue like gracious1 requested

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby Isengrim » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 10:45

bushrat999 wrote:This isn't the place to get into this discussion but another example is Puppy Linux file system. Are beginners supposed to know the file structure of this distro by clairvoyance? the Help icon on the desktop doesn't even refer to Puppy's file structure and how to work with files?...

Off-topic:
Is it different from the typical file hierarchy for other Linux distros? I thought that was fairly standard. There are plenty of articles out there covering the standard Linux file hierarchy.
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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby fillerup » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 10:45

bushrat999 wrote:This isn't the place to get into this discussion but another example is Puppy Linux file system. Are beginners supposed to know the file structure of this distro by clairvoyance? the Help icon on the desktop doesn't even refer to Puppy's file structure and how to work with files?...

that's why you research before diving headfirst into a completely foreign distro, let alone OS..

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/DirectoryStructure

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby stevepusser » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 19:15

It doesn't look like Puppy comes with a user manual, eh? Just like Windows! MX Linux ships with a pretty good one aimed at beginners and switchers, but be warned it's quite a chore to create and maintain. Perhaps you could drum up users to create a similar one for Puppy.

Link to PDF of MX 17 user manual
Last edited by stevepusser on Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 19:18, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby Caluser2000 » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 21:33

bushrat999 give some details about the hardware you are runny Puppy on? Puppy runs completely in memory IIRC. Sounds like an X issue.

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby doffen » Thu, 03 May 2018, 13:57

bushrat999 wrote:This isn't the place to get into this discussion but another example is Puppy Linux file system.

No, this is a Palemoon forum, but 'Palemoon in Puppy' related questions can be answered here, there are many of us who read both forums.
bushrat999 also wrote: Are beginners supposed to know the file structure of this distro by clairvoyance?

stevepusser wrote:It doesn't look like Puppy comes with a user manual, eh?

Well, similar to any new products, the smart way to start using it, is to read the manual, and the addresses have been stearing you in the face every time you use the puppy forum http://murga-linux.com/puppy. The user fillerup gave you an address in his post above, I'll repeat it: http://www.puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage
That address is taken from the puppy forum's home page, the very first link at the top: http://puppylinux.com/.
A button on the upper menu line in that home page, comes with a popup text saying: Puppy Linux wiki.
Among other links on the wikka home page, there you'll find a link to Puppy School. Use it!
If you need a deeper insight to both basic and advanced use of Linux , open the pages of The Linux Documentation Project http://tldp.org/docs.html, and read the guides.

I have been using various versions of Puppy Linux since 2010, paralell with RedHat and Debian which I have used for 18 years. Even if most Linux distros are free, some of them - like RedHat - have developed up-scaled versions for use in universities or companies, and those non-free versions often use a slightly different structure in their file system. They make money out of it, and therefore try to complicate things a bit, so you cannot just copy a smart solution into any Linux, without having a deeper knowledge of Linux. But, there are thousands of Linux sites out there, which provide all the necessary info, probably more than you'll ever need, so please stop complaining about not finding it.
Last edited by doffen on Thu, 03 May 2018, 14:01, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby 137ben » Tue, 08 May 2018, 21:06

Night Wing wrote:
bushrat999 wrote:I'll give one simple non-Palemoon example: I joined the forum today so I submitted my first post. I then went looking for it in the forum - it wasn't there. I looked in my profile it said (0) posts - but hang on I just posted one? However, buried in another forum under 'Terms of this forum' is the bolded message to the effect that a new poster's first message may take several hours to vet. Vetting is fine, even if there were a 24-hr embargo. But that warning message should be given as a new poster is signing on as a new subscriber and not in some forum they haven't even visited yet leaving them wondering where their first post has disappeared to.


Any user who registers to become a member of the Pale Moon forum, their first "3" posts have to be approved by an moderator or Moonchild before the post can be publicly seen on the forum. This keeps the spammers at bay. Usually, when a new user posts their first post, there is a warning it wont' be seen. I got this disclaimer when I joined the Pale Moon forum 6 1/2 years ago.

But most new users, after registering, they make a post, hit the Submit button and then they can't find their post. They don't read what comes after the Submit button. They are in a big hurry. Now I don't know if the disclaimer is still there, but like I said, it was there when I became a registered member.

The disclaimer was there when I made my first post two years ago. I thought it was pretty self-explanatory and clear, although I've seen a lot of other forums with essentially the same policy to stop spambots.

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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby moon convert » Wed, 09 May 2018, 03:47

Hi there, it seems like you're having some Puppy Linux specific frustration.
bushrat999 wrote:why is there not a beginners introduction to ANY of the major apps Puppy Linux provides?

I'm not sure if your hardware or use case would work with a different distro, but if it will work for you, you might want to consider Linux Mint Xfce. Everything just works out of the box, and they have really nice manuals. If you decide to switch to Mint Xfce, I'd recommend installing Palemoon from stevenpusser's excellent repository.Here's the link.
https://software.opensuse.org/download. ... e=palemoon.
Follow the instructions for 16.04, if your on the Linux Mint 18 series. The instructions for 18.04 will correspond to Linux Mint 19, when it is released. I hope this is somewhat helpful, and best of luck with your Linux journey.
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Re: palemoon for new users

Postby Night Wing » Wed, 09 May 2018, 10:27

@ moon convert

Off-topic:
Linux Mint 19.0 (Tara) will be publicly released sometime in June of 2018 for the Cinnamon and Mate desktop environments. The Mint Xfce desktop environment, which is what I use, will follow and it "should" be released either in late June or early July. Anyone thinking of moving to Mint might want to wait one or two more months depending on their choice of desktop environment.

There is supposed to be an easy path to upgrade from Mint 18.3 to 19.0, but Clem usually recommends a clean install to avoid the potential problems the easy path might create. I plan on doing a clean install of Mint 19.0 (Tara) Xfce.
Linux Mint 18.3 (Sylvia) Xfce 64-Bit (Default OS) with 64-Bit linux Pale Moon
Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit (Backup OS) with 32-Bit windows Pale Moon


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