A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Support and discussions for the x86/x64 Linux version of Pale Moon.

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miroR
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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby miroR » Fri, 06 Apr 2018, 09:45

Palemoon that is, in the changelog, labeled UNRELEASED, is, fully compliant (to my best understanding), and is available(the only package) from my repo. (Nothing was really available, because I couldn't get all the signing done with Freight, for some two or three past hours. Wasn't really available, I mean it wasn't properly signed and deployed... Now is, I'd hope. All verifies correctly from apt-get and by dscverify.)

The aim is to get a sponsor and work to get an official Devuan package distributuion.
After, as further above:
[ this same topic ]
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18805#p138390
I gave link to:
miroR wrote:There are tips how to do it that non-advanced but hard-working readers could follow now at:
A repo serving Pale Moon
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1972
Regards!

but the exact post is likely:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8207#p8207
...[after] some fiddling, I was able to:

Code: Select all

$ apt-get source palemoon

and get the complete sources.

This is how the first line of the changelog look like:

Code: Select all

palemoon (27.8.3~repack-4) UNRELEASED; urgency=medium

  * enable SSL-key logging, removed libdbus-* libpulse-dev from build-deps
  * comply fully with Moonchild Productions Redistribution license, see:
      https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18805

 -- Miroslav Rovis <miro.rovis@croatiafidelis.hr>  Thu, 05 Apr 2018 15:07:35 +0000

I promised to explain about the --disable-necko-wifi (or maybe I simply tell you that it can't be installed on a non-dbus system, which mine is) but I haven't finished contributing to Freight. Need more time.

Regards!

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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby New Tobin Paradigm » Fri, 06 Apr 2018, 10:19

enable SSL-key logging


What is this nonsense?

Also, if dbus is available for the target distro you may not disable it.. Same goes for pulseaudio.. Or any other deviation from mainline builds..

The provision shall not be abused just because you personally don't like the feature or vice versa.. Configuration changes are limited soley to what is absolutely required to get a positive build.

I sure hope you don't have any binaries up where the pubic can get a hold of them... You have not been approved yet...
Last edited by New Tobin Paradigm on Fri, 06 Apr 2018, 10:25, edited 1 time in total.
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miroR
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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby miroR » Sat, 07 Apr 2018, 15:40

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
enable SSL-key logging


What is this nonsense?

Hmh... It's what I compiled with since I know about Pale Moon:
How to re-enable key logging to $SSLKEYLOGFILE
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15080

And I'm getting used to packager's way of thinking, which is, kind of... not an innate way to think... I should have mentioned that more explicitely previously... It is only in the linked topic of mine that this topic kind of derived from, and which is made clear right at the top of this very topic:
[ this same topic ]
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18805
the link brought like this:
miroR wrote:( I've compiled my Pale Moon for months, look up:
Building Pale Moon on Devuan fails
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=15751 )
and which is all about enabling SSL-key logging, so pls. allow for some learning-up adjustment, given that I wasn't born a packager-thinker...

Also, if dbus is available for the target distro you may not disable it.. Same goes for pulseaudio.. Or any other deviation from mainline builds..

Previously you wrote:
Your revisions on your mozconfig are looking way better dude.. Disabling dbus is allowed if dbus is causing an issue or not avaiable on a distro level when making a repo for public consumption with offical branding. Same goes with pulseaudio..

and there doesn't look anything wrong that you wrote then and there...
My goal (which I'm not sure that I'll be up to, but that is my objective) is to package, for me, and for people in Devuan who want a non-dbus distro, and non-pulseaudio distro. The distro fraction (not all the distro, which includes the dbus-users and the pusleaudio-users of the distro) that I want to be packaging for is non-dbus users. In the first place.

In other words, the first target users are non-dbus and non-pulseaudio users, which is part of the distro, and I should believe that is the right use of the provision...

Later, if I grow to be able to (at least in theory) take up that work, I could also be packaging a separate package for dbus and pulseaudio users.

Also, I wrote in:
[ this same topic ]
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18805#p138493
by miroR » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:31 pm
miroR wrote:So, if we exclude those 10 last lines, it's really all down to these, whether perm will be granted for distributing such Pale Moon, or not:

Code: Select all

ac_add_options --disable-dbus
ac_add_options --disable-pulseaudio


and after less than 4 hrs you replied, but let me nest it in my reply to that post of yours, at:
[ this same topic ]
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18805#p138509
by New Tobin Paradigm » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:15 am

and that my reply with your nested post paragraph(s):
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18805#p138518
by miroR » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:17 am
miroR wrote:
New Tobin Paradigm wrote:Your revisions on your mozconfig are looking way better dude.. Disabling dbus is allowed if dbus is causing an issue or not avaiable on a distro level when making a repo for public consumption with offical branding. Same goes with pulseaudio..

Really great to hear that! :)
Your personal likes and dislikes cannot be a factor in this..

Yeah, I see. I thought last night after making the last edit (the addition of the -disable-safe-browsing) which was just before going to sleep, so there was no time to add this thought: safe-browsing I will have to compile in (I guess it's the default, so just removing the --disable-safe-browsing from mozconfig will compile it, but...

But I believe it is free to offer to users right upon installation, in some way (which I will have to learn how to do, yet, anybody, how can that be accomplished?), with a click or two, to disable it on their machines.
Keep at it.. You are getting close it would be a shame if you stopped now..

I am doing some more thinking next. Be back with another mozconfig revision. Thanks! :)

Also, the no-dbus and no-pulseaudio conf has been mentioned a few more times by me as a conditio-sine-qua-non in this topic.

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:The provision shall not be abused just because you personally don't like the feature or vice versa.. Configuration changes are limited soley to what is absolutely required to get a positive build.

I sure hope you don't have any binaries up where the pubic can get a hold of them... You have not been approved yet...

I read what you wrote this time, and also what you wrote before. I'm thinking what to tell more next... It's not a quick thought to do...

( Just a note: forum.palemoon.org was down this morning for at least an hour or several hours for some work. It read "The forum is currently offline for migration.")

Regards!

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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby miroR » Sat, 07 Apr 2018, 17:39

The links are some removed for less verbosity, and there are only two links new (one important, the other just because of need for explaining the timing context of discussion) from my previous post, that I'm repasting part of it, shortened.

This is kind of an important addition that is lacking in the previous post of mine, and I want to give that very important one link not in the previous post of mine conspicuous so it not be missed.
miroR wrote:[...]
Also, if dbus is available for the target distro you may not disable it.. Same goes for pulseaudio.. Or any other deviation from mainline builds..

[...]
The distro fraction (not all the distro, which includes the dbus-users and the pusleaudio-users of the distro) that I want to be packaging for is non-dbus users. In the first place.
[...]
Also, I wrote in:
[ this same topic ]
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18805#p138493
by miroR » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:31 pm

Bringing this link again because there is the important one link to notice... Meaning I did tell.. I did ask (it's readable in the link that I did).
miroR wrote:
So, if we exclude those 10 last lines, it's really all down to these, whether perm will be granted for distributing such Pale Moon, or not:

Code: Select all

ac_add_options --disable-dbus
ac_add_options --disable-pulseaudio


and after less than 4 hrs you replied
[...]
Also, the no-dbus and no-pulseaudio conf has been mentioned a few more times by me as a conditio-sine-qua-non in this topic.
[...]


Oh I was clear, and I am again clear, in my intentions and in my asking.
Right at the top of that link (already brought previously, and this is second time in this post):
[ this same topic ]
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18805#p138493
where my open claim about

Code: Select all

ac_add_options --disable-dbus
ac_add_options --disable-pulseaudio

is to be found further down the post, at the very top of that post of mine, second link from the top of that post of mine this link, complete with the title of the topic of the link, is to be found:

OpenBSD & Pale Moon: coordinating patches and officially branded package?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18256&p=138492#p138492
by miroR » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:31 pm

Let me simply paste from that publicly posted query of mine, which I also believe is a query posted in the right place (it is in the right place just like I said in my reply to Walter Dnes, only one, or two posts so far in which it is possible that I replied to him, can search for it, tired, and also it is in this same one topic that the gentle reader is reading right now), and this is what I posted there:
miroR wrote:I'm not an expert at all, but I did some packaging occasionally and with some reliability. Serving a real repo by Debian/Devuan policy is a first in my lifetime.

I have pretty clear concepts of possible deviations from the default in my mozconfig that I would like to do next, and my question is about those.

It's in that link, and it boils down, essentially, whether it is acceptable for Moonchild Productions to allow publishing Pale Moon package, and sources, with official branding, that would have all or most of the basic default options, but also these, I believe non-default options:

Code: Select all

ac_add_options --disable-dbus
ac_add_options --disable-pulseaudio

That's the core point that I need to ask.


And now some more timing context... I asked on time. I gave all the links, and made all the explanations, and asked all that I needed and should have asked...

I was dead tired already yesterday... On top of a [expetive here] dev (who threw out my work last night, or later, lost track, as if it was rubbish) on top of this on:
for sources with patterns with ~ in names #80
https://github.com/freight-team/freight/pull/80
(I'm not mentioning that for no reason. No repo would work if I didn't fix it with that pull request.)
which took me terrible time yesterday, and not being able to use Pale Moon Forums because they were down this morning... I am now also a little worried... and do not feel well...

Also I need to talk to Devuan developers on Devuan DNG ML, or even the Dev list proper.

Also, note that my reply is pretty exhaustive, and carefully put, it did take me a lot of time too.

So pls. allow more time for the next reply of mine. I'm not saying it won't be quick, it might, but I don't believe... This is too disheartening... It may take me a little longer. Thank you!

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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby New Tobin Paradigm » Sat, 07 Apr 2018, 18:39

I can't be bothered to read your personal blog that you turn every thread into..

TWO Simple questions..
1) Does Devuan have dbus in its repositories? If the answer is yes.. You MUST enable dbus support and make it a dependency of your package.
2) Does Devuan have pulseaudio in its repositories? If the answer is yes.. You MUST enable pulseaudio support.

After you resolve those questions post your mozconfig again and the compiler version you wish to use.. and ONLY those two pieces of info.. I will look at it and either approve you or tell you what is wrong.

Also, revert, remove, or otherwise get rid of anything you have done regarding that SSL-key logging bullshit.

Understood? Now satisfy.
Last edited by New Tobin Paradigm on Sat, 07 Apr 2018, 18:42, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby Walter Dnes » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 03:07

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:1) Does Devuan have dbus in its repositories? If the answer is yes.. You MUST enable dbus support and make it a dependency of your package.


Pale Moon has support for pulseaudio, but will run fine without pulseaudio libs.

But for dbus, Pale Moon ABSOLUTELY INSISTS that the extra dbus library be present before it will run. Otherwise, it dies at startup. A programming question from a non-programmer...

Pale Moon apparently already looks for dbus at startup... try running standard Pale Moon on a system without the necessary dbus libs, and it dies immediately. How much programming would it require for Pale Moon to look for dbus, and continue on its merry way if dbus is not found? To the best of my knowledge, the only functionality that dbus provides in the current linux Pale Moon is to allegedly prevent screen blanking when playing a video. And apparently not very well at that https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18798 Flash had its own hooks into the OS, and could disable the screensaver, but HTML5 is taking over from Flash, so the old mechanism doesn't work any more. This isn't Pale Moon specific; it's inherited via the original Firefox code.

dbus was also used by Necko-Wifi, but that feature is not part of the default build, and Pale Moon doesn't have Mozilla's licence key for Google's Wifi database anyways.

There's a lot of hatred amongst linux users aimed at "Lennart-ware". There's no problem with pulseaudio support in Pale Moon. Pale Moon SUPPORTS BUT DOES NOT REQUIRE pulseaudio installed. If Pale Moon could remove the HARD CODED DEPENDENCY on dbus, and go to "support but not require dbus libs", that would probably defuse the hatred.
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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby New Tobin Paradigm » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 05:01

I am not gonna debate this.. You will build with dbus support if the distribution has dbus available in their system repositories. I don't care if people hate dbus. I don't care for your opinions about dbus or pulseaudio or systemd or alsa or anything else controversial in the linux world. Your choices are to obey or not produce officially branded binaries.

Decide.
Last edited by New Tobin Paradigm on Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 05:05, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby stevepusser » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 22:32

What about a separate palemoon-nodbus package, like my palemoon-nonsse2 one for ye olde CPUs?

I have to ask what the purpose of this mozconfig, too:

Code: Select all

mk_add_options MOZ_OBJDIR=/home/$USER/pmbuild/


It restricts a packager to building it in that one location only. I can't see the reason for that when one can use PWD.

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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby New Tobin Paradigm » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 23:42

Because legacy...
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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby miroR » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 18:17

New Tobin Paradigm wrote:
stevepusser wrote:[...]
I have to ask what the purpose of this mozconfig, too:

Code: Select all

mk_add_options MOZ_OBJDIR=/home/$USER/pmbuild/


It restricts a packager to building it in that one location only. I can't see the reason for that when one can use PWD.

Because legacy...

It that the meaning of the last post?

And:
stevepusser wrote:What about a separate palemoon-nodbus package, like my palemoon-nonsse2 one for ye olde CPUs?
[...]

thanks so much for the suggestion... But it's all on hold...
Guys, you who understand Linux, and I really like reading from you (and I like Pale Moon, just hone up those edges in your communication, please...), tell Tobin if... (I'll be back to finish my thought...)

Tobin, pls. I have not withheld any info, I have no link that I did not post for perusal and evaluation and deciding about, that I have not included in my questioning.

Now back to my thought. Without me repeating myself, tell Tobin, some of you, what that is that I made available, and how many people are likely to even understand how to get to the sources or to the binary that's available in the link available, well, since the start of the topic... It's the first thing I did when naming this topic to it's name...

And now pls. allow more time... Nothing is on fire and no danger of anybody using my Palemoon, e.g. when installing Devuan or Debian...

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Re: A Pale Moon repo for Devuan/Debian

Postby miroR » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 19:17

Walter Dnes wrote:[...]
Pale Moon has support for pulseaudio, but will run fine without pulseaudio libs.

But for dbus, Pale Moon ABSOLUTELY INSISTS that the extra dbus library be present before it will run. Otherwise, it dies at startup. A programming question from a non-programmer...
[...]

Thanks for your effort to explain these things. My related work postponed though, for other, some completely non-related reasons, and some already explained reasons.


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