Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Support and discussions for the x86/x64 Linux version of Pale Moon.

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half-moon
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby half-moon » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:49 pm

lightning slinger wrote:
0strodamus wrote:Thanks for keeping Pale Moon 27 on GTK2! If and when you decide to migrate to the abomination known as GTK3, I hope you don't remove the ability to compile against GTK2.

+1 :clap:

+1, GTK3 is just plain shit.

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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Matt A Tobin » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:12 pm

GTK2 won't be around forever but we won't be cutting support for it anytime soon if ever.. Our glue for it iirc shares code between the two were it makes sense to do so plus ifdefs... Though GTK3 is on the roadmap because 2 isn't even being maintained anymore codewise and there will come a point where distros won't ship it anymore.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Walter Dnes » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:44 pm

Matt A Tobin wrote:There is no justifiable reason for THESE kinds of contributed or otherwise builds anymore.. ALSO removing and changing features won't likely get certification and permission to use our branding as this would cause a lot of confusion.

The current "Atom Build" does indeed remove features from the mainstream build, so the precedent is already set. It's a question of how many features are removed. I can do a different "contributed" version from what I do for my own netbook. It only takes 90 minutes to build. The problem is that, according to the devs, removing just the dev tools alone doesn't really help that much. So there's no point in doing that type of build.

And http://linux.palemoon.org/download/atom/ states...
These builds of Pale Moon for Linux are specifically optimized for Intel Atom™ processors, and will not run on non-Atom processors (unlike the Windows Atom builds).

This is probably due to making use of the Atom's "movbe" instruction, which many later non-Atom cpus do not have. Again, I'm not proposing anything that Pale Moon has not done before.

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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Walter Dnes » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:51 pm

Matt A Tobin wrote:GTK2 won't be around forever but we won't be cutting support for it anytime soon if ever.. Our glue for it iirc shares code between the two were it makes sense to do so plus ifdefs... Though GTK3 is on the roadmap because 2 isn't even being maintained anymore codewise and there will come a point where distros won't ship it anymore.

I'm not a programmer or developer, so the following may be a stupid question... How painfull would it be to switch over to FLTK? From http://www.fltk.org/index.php

FLTK (pronounced "fulltick") is a cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit for UNIX®/Linux® (X11), Microsoft® Windows®, and MacOS® X. FLTK provides modern GUI functionality without the bloat and supports 3D graphics via OpenGL® and its built-in GLUT emulation.

FLTK is designed to be small and modular enough to be statically linked, but works fine as a shared library. FLTK also includes an excellent UI builder called FLUID that can be used to create applications in minutes.

FLTK is provided under the terms of the GNU Library Public License, Version 2 with exceptions that allow for static linking.

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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby trava90 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:17 pm

As Tobin mentioned, GTK3 is on the roadmap eventually (this is another advantage for us moving to a CentOS 7 environment - it already has all the GTK3 stuff we will need for whenever the time comes), but there are no plans to break or remove GTK2 support anytime in the near (and maybe even distant) future.

Walter - the Linux Atom builds have only 3 differences compared to the mainline 32bit builds:
1. The devtools are disabled at compile time
2. They are built with the additional "march=atom" GCC flag
3. They specify "Atom" instead of "x86" in the Help -> About Pale Moon box.
And that's it. Those are the only differences.

FLTK looks interesting, but is not on the roadmap at the moment (patches welcome!).

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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby ketmar » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:35 am

Off-topic:
it was even possible to build v26 with Qt. it was somewhat buggy, but nothing one can't fix. ;-) i should see if it is still possible with Tycho.

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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Artemis3 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:43 am

The cool kids migrate to qt xD https://www.wikivs.com/wiki/GTK_vs_Qt#From_GTK.2B_to_Qt

Check the subsurface migration experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0A1dsQOV0

BTW: I own and still use a Pentium M based netbook, not as a primary but for specific jobs and quick testing. Its running Xubuntu 14.04 with Palemoon.
Last edited by Artemis3 on Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Matt A Tobin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:09 am

Artemis3 wrote:The cool kids migrate to qt xD


Patches Welcome :wave:
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Moonchild » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:55 am

I do hope Qt has improved its looks if that's what people want, because it's been clunky and crash-prone last i looked at it some years back.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby ketmar » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:00 am

i'd like to see Qt backend (Qt4) fully working one day. but not that much to motivate me to fix it. ;-)

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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Matt A Tobin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:17 am

If someone wants to do this they may as well go for Qt5. Though somehow I don't see this ever happening realisticly.. While we have a great small team who all work hard but unless someone steps up to do this alt widget code it just isn't going to happen.. Not to mention if someone with such skills did popup we have MUCH MORE important areas talents like that could serve.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby ketmar » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:31 am

from my PoV, Qt5 is almost as crappy as GTK+3. but most of the code will be shared between Qt4/Qt5 implementation anyway. actually, Qt4 in v26 was working (not excellent, but almost acceptably), it just had some layouting broken (which can be fixed relatively easy -- it is just recent Qt4 changes, mostly cosmetix). dunno about Tycho, tho, didn't looked if it still has Qt backend code, and if it is, in which state.

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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Moonraker » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:07 pm

I would just like to add that as a linux 64bit user im just grateful that a linux version of this superb browser is available and its great news that its developement will be continued so a big thanks to the linux maintainer.
Linux Lite 2.8 64bit.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Matt A Tobin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:09 pm

Dunno why anyone thought that it was going away.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Moonraker » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:29 pm

upon browsing on the subject it seems that palemoon is primarily a windows based browser and so many people may think a linux version does not exist.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Matt A Tobin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:56 pm

We have for a while now been better integrating the Linux version from it's original status as a contributed build with benefits into a full fledged sku.. We basically treat linux as a completely valid platform and apart of our development. Which is great.. You can thank Travis for that hard work.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby 0strodamus » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:25 pm

ketmar wrote:from my PoV, Qt5 is almost as crappy as GTK+3.

I'll second that motion. :thumbup:
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Moonchild » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:06 am

Moonraker wrote:upon browsing on the subject it seems that palemoon is primarily a windows based browser and so many people may think a linux version does not exist.

And if you look at the browser's home page, what is the first sentence you see?

I'll quote for your convenience:
www.palemoon.org wrote:Pale Moon is an Open Source, Goanna-based web browser available for Microsoft Windows and Linux (with other operating systems in development), focusing on efficiency and ease of use.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby Moonraker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:52 pm

Thank you moonchild for the clarification.
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Re: Plans for Pale Moon for Linux 27

Postby gin83 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:25 am

Matt A Tobin wrote:...Not to mention if someone with such skills did popup we have MUCH MORE important areas talents like that could serve.


Such as? Just curious...


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