Bye, FossaMail.

Development discussions for FossaMail

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Nigaikaze
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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Nigaikaze » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:34

Sun-Glasses wrote:First off, let me assure you that this is no troll post.

dark_moon wrote:That thread titel again..Why in hell make people nowadays such threads? It you dont use it, then go away instead of making such posts :!:

half-moon wrote:This post feels like a troll post.

fillerup wrote:surprised this thread isn't named 'FossaMail is DOOMED!@!@ to fail, here's why'

Nigaikaze wrote:
Sun-Glasses wrote:First off, let me assure you that this is no troll post.

How you feel you are presenting yourself does not necessarily correspond with how other forum members are viewing you.

There's my proof. You stated that your post was "no troll post," yet at least two other forum members viewed it as otherwise.
Sun-Glasses wrote:Honestly, I don't care about how other people, namely some fanboys here, view me.

And that, right there, is part of the problem. I'm not talking about manners (e.g., etiquette) at all, I'm talking about the apparent disconnect between how you say you are presenting yourself and how other forum members are reacting to your presentation. But if you don't care about that, that won't change.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Sun-Glasses » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:35

surprised this thread isn't named 'FossaMail is DOOMED!@!@ to fail, here's why'


This is because I don't see the reason why FossaMail exists at all, given that Thunderbird does the exact same thing. While I see some reason for Pale Moon, this project also has its problems. You can make fun about that all you want, but those are the reasons why it will fail, like it or not. It's not my failure, so why should I bother? I was trying to help, and this help was refused - despite the notable mentions of facts other people have already brought forward.
Last edited by Sun-Glasses on Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Sun-Glasses » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:37

There's my proof. You stated that your post was "no troll post," yet at least two other forum members viewed it as otherwise.


Why are fanboys called fanboys? Enough said. A discussion about actual facts is not possible at all.

And that, right there, is part of the problem. I'm not talking about manners (e.g., etiquette) at all, I'm talking about the apparent disconnect between how you say you are presenting yourself and how other forum members are reacting to your presentation. But if you don't care about that, that won't change.


Care to mention some facts here as well? Talking about how you and some fanboys perceive me leads nowhere.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Lootyhoof » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:42

This is turning into a flame war rather quickly for no apparent reason.

"Why does FossaMail actually exist?"

The better question is: Why not? :)

The code is out there. If someone wants to make a Thunderbird build, they can. Is there a need to question?

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Sun-Glasses » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:43

Mozilla has been threatening Thunderbird's future existence for more than 4 years. While it now seems that the Software Freedom Conservancy or The Document Foundation may rescue it, as far as I know that still hasn't been agreed. Thankfully Moonchild is committed to the continued development of FossaMail as a free and open source alternative.


First off, thanks for providing the first actual answer to my post. Well OK, that might be a reason. But it doesn't explain why FossaMail was forked off while Thunderbird was still going strong and how Moonchild plans to keep it up when he can't backport any fixes from Mozilla TB anymore.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Sun-Glasses » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:46

This is turning into a flame war rather quickly for no apparent reason.


Right, I second that.
The better question is: Why not? :)

The code is out there. If someone wants to make a Thunderbird build, they can. Is there a need to question?


Well, I did not question the POSSIBILITY to create FossaMail, I was questioning the REASON to create it when there are no actual advantages over Thunderbird. I see why Pale Moon exists (non-Australis, add-on massacre this year etc.), but I can't find any reasons for FossaMail.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Nigaikaze » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:49

Sun-Glasses wrote:Care to mention some facts here as well?

Facts already presented, but your opinions ("Why are fanboys called fanboys?") have dismissed them.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby troypulk » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:51

Sun-Glasses wrote:Dear FossaMail & Pale Moon development team,

I would be interested in your answer to a question I have. First off, let me assure you that this is no troll post. As of late I came to ask myself the question: "Why does FossaMail actually exist?", and I have not found an answer yet. I am currently using Postbox, an E-Mail client derived from Thunderbird which is far more feature-rich than Thunderbird. Also, it is better designed than Thunderbird & FossaMail and does provide some actual productivity improvements. The only disadvantage is that it comes with a price tag. When I compare it to FossaMail I really have to ask why FossaMail even exists. Feature-wise it does provide zero advantage over Thunderbird. Thunderbird has a newer Gecko engine, also has Lightning and there are also 64 Bit Thunderbird builds. Other than the ancient optics I really don't see a reason to use FossaMail over Thunderbird. Could you please explain to me why FossaMail even exists? I see the point in Pale Moon given the add-on massacre this year and Australis and stuff, but I don't see why FossaMail has to exist. Please explain!

Cheers,
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You are right, FossaMail is a failed product, SO DON'T USE IT, use something else and stop complaining about something you have no control over, MOVE ON.
SolydX EE (64-bit)

Pale Moon 28.0.0b5 (64-bit)

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Sun-Glasses » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:52

Facts already presented, but your opinions ("Why are fanboys called fanboys?") have dismissed them.


That is wrong and you know it. I did reply to their arguments politely and in a matter-of-fact-style on page one. After not being able to counter me they started to insult me, which I rightfully called childish and fanboy-like. That's what happened. Read it up.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Sun-Glasses » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 14:53

You are right, FossaMail is a failed product, SO DON'T USE IT, use something else and stop complaining about something you have no control over, MOVE ON.


It hinders Pale Moon development and I do use Pale Moon. It's funny (and quite obvious) how you also have zero arguments for the existence of FossaMail.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Lootyhoof » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 15:00

Sun-Glasses wrote:
This is turning into a flame war rather quickly for no apparent reason.


Right, I second that.
The better question is: Why not? :)

The code is out there. If someone wants to make a Thunderbird build, they can. Is there a need to question?


Well, I did not question the POSSIBILITY to create FossaMail, I was questioning the REASON to create it when there are no actual advantages over Thunderbird. I see why Pale Moon exists (non-Australis, add-on massacre this year etc.), but I can't find any reasons for FossaMail.

Ah, but you see, there was no reason other than "because it can be". See here for the initial version:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3460

Please bear in mind that Pale Moon originally existed as an optimised version of Firefox, nothing more. FossaMail is in a similar situation, though does change the UI ever so slightly (namely, the location of the menu bar and colourful icons).

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby half-moon » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 15:16

Sun-Glasses wrote:
Facts already presented, but your opinions ("Why are fanboys called fanboys?") have dismissed them.


That is wrong and you know it. I did reply to their arguments politely and in a matter-of-fact-style on page one. After not being able to counter me they started to insult me, which I rightfully called childish and fanboy-like. That's what happened. Read it up.


:lol:

It's pretty obvious that you are the one being rude to everybody and being childish.

Sun-Glasses wrote:
You are right, FossaMail is a failed product, SO DON'T USE IT, use something else and stop complaining about something you have no control over, MOVE ON.


It hinders Pale Moon development and I do use Pale Moon. It's funny (and quite obvious) how you also have zero arguments for the existence of FossaMail.


Proof it hinders PM development? The only way you could have proof of this is if you were the lead developer and (thankfully) you aren't.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Sun-Glasses » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 15:20

Ah, but you see, there was no reason other than "because it can be". See here for the initial version:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3460

Please bear in mind that Pale Moon originally existed as an optimised version of Firefox, nothing more. FossaMail is in a similar situation, though does change the UI ever so slightly (namely, the location of the menu bar and colourful icons).


I see, thanks for the reply. However, you are basically saying that FossaMail offers literally no actual advantages over Thunderbird. I mentioned Postbox in my first post not to troll anybody, but to show off what can be done with the Thunderbird code. The guys developing Postbox added some value on top of the Thunderbird code, after all. That's something people will notice. I hope FossaMail won't be this way forever, because then it doesn't make sense to maintain it as long as Thunderbird is still around.

OT: Your White Moon theme ver. 1.6.1 is working great here on my Mac (Pale Moon 27.0.3). There is only one minor issue: The theme does not seem to cover the title bar at all... The title bar always stays the way it already was with the default theme. Any way to fix that?

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Sun-Glasses » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 15:25

:lol:

It's pretty obvious that you are the one being rude to everybody and being childish.


Well, at least I gave proof for my statement whereas you did not. You do not seem to bother about your previous arguments, seeing how weak they were. That I call childish, the way every fanboy behaves when "their" (feel the irony)program is criticized.

Proof it hinders PM development? The only way you could have proof of this is if you were the lead developer and (thankfully) you aren't.


LOL... Read what Matt A. Tobin wrote before writing nonsense. He basically says FossaMail stagnates because the team can't put much effort into FossaMail as this would hinder Pale Moon development. Go read it up. That does not even come from me. You are ridiculous.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 15:30

That is NOT what I said.

It isn't an intense burden but it is a burden and is managed as effectively as possible given demand for it. If that demand goes up then more time will be dedicated to it.. If not it will be maintained in good working order and updated when the platform updates in a significant way. Keep secure at the very least.


When I say something you can bet it is exactly what I mean. I don't believe in pretense or shrouding my words in platitudes. I said precisely what I meant.

However, if you are gonna be like this then perhaps you should go elsewhere. FossaMail Development is not the place advertise other email clients while taking shots at the hard work of others or community members.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby satrow » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 15:36

Sun-Glasses wrote:
What sort of bullshit logic is that? One major security feature of FossaMail is it disables remote content by default. I bet your postbox doesn't do that. Also, Goanna is actively maintained and patched with each release of PM and FM.


Stay polite. Anyway, FossaMail uses a lightly improved Gecko 24, whereas Thunderbird uses Gecko 45. Enough said. Even if Moonchild backported fixes, you would still miss out on notable Gecko improvements.


Staying polite doesn't seem to work with you, you come here and claim that the software we use daily is pointless, that's pretty pointless in itself, is it not?

Hand knitting is also pretty pointless now that there are machines that will do it, why not join up on a knitting site and complain that it's pointless, eh?

Your alternative simply isn't an alternative - to us. Just leave it at that, please.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby New Tobin Paradigm » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 15:41

That quote is also technologically wrong. FossaMail 24 used str8 up Gecko 24.. FossaMail 25 used Pale Moon's backend platform.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Lootyhoof » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 16:08

Sun-Glasses wrote:OT: Your White Moon theme ver. 1.6.1 is working great here on my Mac (Pale Moon 27.0.3). There is only one minor issue: The theme does not seem to cover the title bar at all... The title bar always stays the way it already was with the default theme. Any way to fix that?

Off-topic:
This was done purposely due to a bug with that feature in Pale Moon 27.

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Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Unread postby Moonchild » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 16:23

Considering this thread, like some before by the same user, is flame-bait, I'm locking this.

A simple answer as to why FossaMail exists is because it offers a non-Mozilla alternative to Thunderbird, and to offer a mail client that uses our platform (with all its practical benefits) and works and looks the way I want it to.

That is all there is to it.
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