Bye, FossaMail.

Development discussions for FossaMail
Sun-Glasses

Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 13:28

Dear FossaMail & Pale Moon development team,

I would be interested in your answer to a question I have. First off, let me assure you that this is no troll post. As of late I came to ask myself the question: "Why does FossaMail actually exist?", and I have not found an answer yet. I am currently using Postbox, an E-Mail client derived from Thunderbird which is far more feature-rich than Thunderbird. Also, it is better designed than Thunderbird & FossaMail and does provide some actual productivity improvements. The only disadvantage is that it comes with a price tag. When I compare it to FossaMail I really have to ask why FossaMail even exists. Feature-wise it does provide zero advantage over Thunderbird. Thunderbird has a newer Gecko engine, also has Lightning and there are also 64 Bit Thunderbird builds. Other than the ancient optics I really don't see a reason to use FossaMail over Thunderbird. Could you please explain to me why FossaMail even exists? I see the point in Pale Moon given the add-on massacre this year and Australis and stuff, but I don't see why FossaMail has to exist. Please explain!

Cheers,
Sun-Glasses

dark_moon

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by dark_moon » 2017-01-20, 13:37

That thread titel again..Why in hell make people nowadays such threads? It you dont use it, then go away instead of making such posts :!:

Anyway why - in my opinion - FossaMail is great:
- no telemetry/ spying
- Goanna Engine, also fast and secure
- have this community as base
- free!
- 64Bit exist too

half-moon

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by half-moon » 2017-01-20, 13:41

Sun-Glasses wrote:I am currently using Postbox, an E-Mail client derived from Thunderbird which is far more feature-rich than Thunderbird. Also, it is better designed than Thunderbird & FossaMail and does provide some actual productivity improvements.
Proof?
Sun-Glasses wrote:When I compare it to FossaMail I really have to ask why FossaMail even exists. Feature-wise it does provide zero advantage over Thunderbird.
You don't need to repeat yourself.
Sun-Glasses wrote:Thunderbird has a newer Gecko engine, also has Lightning and there are also 64 Bit Thunderbird builds.
FossaMail has support for the lightning extension and FossaMail also has 64-bit support.
Sun-Glasses wrote:Other than the ancient optics I really don't see a reason to use FossaMail over Thunderbird. Could you please explain to me why FossaMail even exists? I see the point in Pale Moon given the add-on massacre this year and Australis and stuff, but I don't see why FossaMail has to exist. Please explain
FossaMail is more secure than Thunderbird. Also, what is this "ancient optics" you are talking about? Also, just because you like Postbox, it doesn't mean that FossaMail is automatically useless and done away with. I personally find FossaMail to be the best choice for me honestly.


Going back to this:
Sun-Glasses wrote:First off, let me assure you that this is no troll post
This post feels like a troll post. You are suggesting that program x is useless and shouldn't exist because you use program y.
dark_moon wrote:That thread title again..Why in hell make people nowadays such threads? It you dont use it, then go away instead of making such posts :!:

Anyway why - in my opinion - FossaMail is great:
- no telemetry/ spying
- Goanna Engine, also fast and secure
- have this community as base
- free!
- 64Bit exist too
I agree 100%! Remember, this is the same troll who made another troll post in the development board, shitting on both Pale Moon and FossaMail.

Sun-Glasses

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 13:46

That thread titel again..Why in hell make people nowadays such threads? It you dont use it, then go away instead of making such posts :!:
What's wrong with questions about the reasoning behind a product?
- no telemetry/ spying
OK, but that's a rather minor reason for it. I can also disable telemetry in Thunderbird very easily (about:config).
- Goanna Engine, also fast and secure
It's an older version of Gecko actually and I highly doubt FossaMail is faster than a current Thunderbird.
- have this community as base
Thunderbird has more support than FossaMail. Enough said. Mozillazine as well.
- free!
Also true for Thunderbird and no argument if you ask me.
- 64Bit exist too
Also true for Thunderbird. Postbox does not even provide 32 bit versions.
Last edited by Sun-Glasses on 2017-01-20, 14:08, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Nigaikaze
Forum staff
Forum staff
Posts: 1146
Joined: 2014-02-02, 22:15
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Nigaikaze » 2017-01-20, 13:53

Sun-Glasses wrote:First off, let me assure you that this is no troll post.
How you feel you are presenting yourself does not necessarily correspond with how other forum members are viewing you.
Nichi nichi kore ko jitsu = Every day is a good day.

Sun-Glasses

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 13:54

Proof?
You are joking, right? Am I supposed to show you the license keys I have paid for? Screenshots of my inbox?
FossaMail has support for the lightning extension and FossaMail also has 64-bit support.
That's not a reason to use FossaMail I am afraid since Thunderbird has that as well.
FossaMail is more secure than Thunderbird.
Proof? FossaMail uses an older version of Gecko so I highly doubt it's more secure.
Also, what is this "ancient optics" you are talking about?
Take a look at the program and then compare it to emClient, Postbox...
This post feels like a troll post. You are suggesting that program x is useless and shouldn't exist because you use program y.
If FossaMail has no advantages over Thunderbird then its existence is not feasible for a team that already develops a browser.
Remember, this is the same troll who made another troll post in the development board, shitting on both Pale Moon and FossaMail.
Since you have not proven anything I have written wrong I assume this childish behavior traces back to your inability to put my claims aside reasonably.
Last edited by Sun-Glasses on 2017-01-20, 13:57, edited 2 times in total.

dark_moon

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by dark_moon » 2017-01-20, 13:55

Sun-Glasses wrote:What's wrong with questions about the reasoning behind a product?
Nothing, but only if the thread doesnt sound like a troll post.
Sun-Glasses wrote:It's an older version of Gecko actually and I highly doubr FossaMail is faster than a current Thunderbird.
Very wrong. Goanna is a own engine and have latest mozilla updates. If you read the homepage, you would know that.
Sun-Glasses wrote:Thunderbird has more support than FossaMail. Enough said. Mozillazine as well.
Yeah but we all know how good mozillazine is nowadays. But if you like them, go to them.

Sure but i'm finish here. You need to read more about the products on the homepage!
http://www.fossamail.org & https://www.palemoon.org

User avatar
New Tobin Paradigm
Off-Topic Sheriff
Off-Topic Sheriff
Posts: 7197
Joined: 2012-10-09, 19:37
Location: Insulting you on the internet.

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by New Tobin Paradigm » 2017-01-20, 13:55

It exists because as a community we wanted it to exist. Whether or not you want to use it is up to you.

You may as well ask why Pale Moon exists.. Simply because there is a demand for it no matter how modest. Thunderbird and SeaMonkey are both being kicked off the Mozilla Infrastructure and are getting the last of the tidbits of funding and support killed off. Unfortunately, those in charge of those projects will either try and go it alone or it will die. Going it alone does present its own set of issues they must be willing to overcome.

Unlike the Pale Moon project and Moonchild Productions, these projects have never had to be without an infrastructure and the minimal support from main-line Mozilla they have benefited from after being kicked out of mozilla-central. Many of them no longer have a drive to do anything but the status quo and high levels of apathy flow through the respective projects.

They operate under a system where they are made to be thankful for the small quantity of dinner scraps thrown to them every now and again and almost never taking any kind of initiative for fear that they won't be given what little they do and what they have will be snatched away from them. Despite efforts by many, my self included, they were informed that this would not, could not go on forever but apathy is a strong demotivate and closes minds and causes dismissal of facts even when right in front of their collective faces. Offers of working together and shared community support are rejected outside the MozCo ecosystem and they have NO plan for how to deal with it and no experience with independent development.

Also, there was a huge thing about the former Mozilla CEO and politically inconvenient opinions being expressed which forced our hand in forking Thunderbird as FossaMail. It was requested and desired by our userbase and community. THAT is why it exists. And why not.. The thing was designed (after being split off from the suite) to work with the very same platform that drives Pale Moon.. It isn't an intense burden but it is a burden and is managed as effectively as possible given demand for it. If that demand goes up then more time will be dedicated to it.. If not it will be maintained in good working order and updated when the platform updates in a significant way. Keep secure at the very least.

Just because one prefers webmail or some other client doesn't mean that FossaMail doesn't have, not only a right to exist, but a demand to exist.

I am the New Tobin Paradigm and I approve this message.
Image
- thEre iS No wAY oUt of HErE.. iT'll bE DArK sOON.. -
https://binaryoutcast.com/ | Freenode #binaryoutcast | http://thereisonlyxul.org/

Sun-Glasses

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 13:55

How you feel you are presenting yourself does not necessarily correspond with how other forum members are viewing you.
I have no reason to cater to you or anyone else. Prove me wrong if you can, otherwise stop blaming me for faults I am not responsible for.

half-moon

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by half-moon » 2017-01-20, 14:03

Sun-Glasses wrote:Proof? FossaMail uses an older version of Gecko so I highly doubt it's more secure
What sort of bullshit logic is that? One major security feature of FossaMail is it disables remote content by default. I bet your postbox doesn't do that. Also, Goanna is actively maintained and patched with each release of PM and FM.

Sun-Glasses

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 14:03

Nothing, but only if the thread doesnt sound like a troll post.
Do I have to cater to you, Sir?
Very wrong. Goanna is a own engine and have latest mozilla updates. If you read the homepage, you would know that.
Wait, what? Even the homepage states that Pale Moon and FossaMail derived from Gecko 24. FossaMail is still on Gecko 24, whereas Thunderbird uses Gecko 45. So even if Moonchild backported all fixes you would still miss out on Gecko improvements which are not security-related. Inform yourself before accusing others of being misinformed.

half-moon

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by half-moon » 2017-01-20, 14:05

Sun-Glasses wrote:
Nothing, but only if the thread doesnt sound like a troll post.
Do I have to cater to you, Sir?
Very wrong. Goanna is a own engine and have latest mozilla updates. If you read the homepage, you would know that.
Wait, what? Even the homepage states that Pale Moon and FossaMail derived from Gecko 24. FossaMail is still on Gecko 24, whereas Thunderbird uses Gecko 45. So even if Moonchild backported all fixes you would still miss out on Gecko improvements which are not security-related. Inform yourself before accusing others of being misinformed.
Says the guy who cant do some simple research and spreads false information.

Sun-Glasses

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 14:06

What sort of bullshit logic is that? One major security feature of FossaMail is it disables remote content by default. I bet your postbox doesn't do that. Also, Goanna is actively maintained and patched with each release of PM and FM.
Stay polite. Anyway, FossaMail uses a lightly improved Gecko 24, whereas Thunderbird uses Gecko 45. Enough said. Even if Moonchild backported fixes, you would still miss out on notable Gecko improvements.

Sun-Glasses

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 14:07

Says the guy who cant do some simple research and spreads false information.
How was the information I gave here false? Give proof before you write nonsense. Again, Moonchild backporting security fixes still does not make up for the improvements that inevitably happened between Gecko 24 and Gecko 45. Are you kidding me?

half-moon

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by half-moon » 2017-01-20, 14:12

Sun-Glasses wrote:
Proof?
You are joking, right? Am I supposed to show you the license keys I have paid for? Screenshots of my inbox?
Clearly you lack reading comprehension

This is the part I was when I asked for proof in my first post:
Sun-Glasses wrote:I am currently using Postbox, an E-Mail client derived from Thunderbird which is far more feature-rich than Thunderbird. Also, it is better designed than Thunderbird & FossaMail and does provide some actual productivity improvements.
Sun-Glasses wrote:
What sort of bullshit logic is that? One major security feature of FossaMail is it disables remote content by default. I bet your postbox doesn't do that. Also, Goanna is actively maintained and patched with each release of PM and FM.
Stay polite.
Hypocrite!
Sun-Glasses wrote:
Says the guy who cant do some simple research and spreads false information.
How was the information I gave here false? Give proof before you write nonsense.
Says the guy who keeps failing to provide evidence and spewing nonsense.
Sun-Glasses wrote:
Also, what is this "ancient optics" you are talking about?
Take a look at the program and then compare it to emClient, Postbox...
So just because FossaMail doesn't look like those programs, it means that it's look is outdated? Ummm... no. Honestly, Postbox looks kind of ugly.
Off-topic:
You know what, I shouldn't be feeding the troll but I guess I get baited pretty easily.

User avatar
Nigaikaze
Forum staff
Forum staff
Posts: 1146
Joined: 2014-02-02, 22:15
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Nigaikaze » 2017-01-20, 14:21

Sun-Glasses wrote:
How you feel you are presenting yourself does not necessarily correspond with how other forum members are viewing you.
I have no reason to cater to you or anyone else. Prove me wrong if you can, otherwise stop blaming me for faults I am not responsible for.
It is not a matter of catering to anyone, nor is it a matter of proof. It is a matter of your apparent lack of self-awareness about how the manner in which you express yourself is viewed by other forum members.
Nichi nichi kore ko jitsu = Every day is a good day.

Sun-Glasses

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 14:23

Clearly you lack reading comprehension
You are an unpleasant person to be honest.
This is the part I was when I asked for proof in my first post:
Read up http://kb.mozillazine.org/Email_clients ... hunderbird and https://www.postbox-inc.com/blog/entry/ ... -available and https://www.postbox-inc.com/product/releasenotes There you have it.
Hypocrite!
Is that the best you can bring forward against me? How about facts?
Says the guy who keeps failing to provide evidence and spewing nonsense.
Saying that to me while being obscure and vague yourself is quite funny, don't you think? I have provided evidence above, now where is yours? Also, stop behaving childish just because I asked about the background of FossaMail.
So just because FossaMail doesn't look like those programs, it means that it's look is outdated? Ummm... no. Honestly, Postbox looks kind of ugly.
Postbox has more customers than FossaMail and those also pay for a quality product, so I tend to disagree with you. Also, FossaMail looking outdated was mentioned in several reviews on the product.
Last edited by Sun-Glasses on 2017-01-20, 14:27, edited 1 time in total.

Sun-Glasses

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Sun-Glasses » 2017-01-20, 14:26

It is not a matter of catering to anyone, nor is it a matter of proof. It is a matter of your apparent lack of self-awareness about how the manner in which you express yourself is viewed by other forum members.
Honestly, I don't care about how other people, namely some fanboys here, view me. I gave proof and you lack proof, and until you provide some you can discuss about manners with me all you want. I didn't insult anybody after all, but unpolite guys like half-moon keep insulting me. And I deal with it, so should you.

fillerup
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 508
Joined: 2014-05-19, 19:14
Location: Finland

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by fillerup » 2017-01-20, 14:30

surprised this thread isn't named 'FossaMail is DOOMED!@!@ to fail, here's why'

Falna
Lunatic
Lunatic
Posts: 359
Joined: 2015-08-23, 17:56
Location: UK / France

Re: Bye, FossaMail.

Post by Falna » 2017-01-20, 14:33

Sun-Glasses wrote:I really don't see a reason to use FossaMail over Thunderbird. Could you please explain to me why FossaMail even exists?
Mozilla has been threatening Thunderbird's future existence for more than 4 years. While it now seems that the Software Freedom Conservancy or The Document Foundation may rescue it, as far as I know that still hasn't been agreed. Thankfully Moonchild is committed to the continued development of FossaMail as a free and open source alternative.

Locked