BSOD

[Noom Elap]

Hello,

I got Pale Moon x64 yesterday since I saw it is portable now (though I'd prefer it in .paf format).
The first time since I got windows 7 pro x64 installed I've encountered blue screens. Two times when only Pale Moon running.
Here are two of my dump reports:

==================================================
Dump File : 011712-11091-01.dmp
Crash Time : 17.01.2012 20:18:38
Bug Check String :
Bug Check Code : 0x00000124
Parameter 1 : 00000000`00000000
Parameter 2 : fffffa80`06b4d038
Parameter 3 : 00000000`b6000000
Parameter 4 : 00000000`00010015
Caused By Driver : hal.dll
Caused By Address : hal.dll+12a3b
File Description :
Product Name :
Company :
File Version :
Processor : x64
Crash Address : ntoskrnl.exe+7cc40
Stack Address 1 :
Stack Address 2 :
Stack Address 3 :
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\Windows\Minidump\011712-11091-01.dmp
Processors Count : 2
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 7601
Dump File Size : 275.288
==================================================


==================================================
Dump File : 011712-11544-01.dmp
Crash Time : 17.01.2012 20:36:01
Bug Check String :
Bug Check Code : 0x00000124
Parameter 1 : 00000000`00000000
Parameter 2 : fffffa80`06ea9038
Parameter 3 : 00000000`b6000000
Parameter 4 : 00000000`00010015
Caused By Driver : hal.dll
Caused By Address : hal.dll+12a3b
File Description :
Product Name :
Company :
File Version :
Processor : x64
Crash Address : ntoskrnl.exe+7cc40
Stack Address 1 :
Stack Address 2 :
Stack Address 3 :
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\Windows\Minidump\011712-11544-01.dmp
Processors Count : 2
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 7601
Dump File Size : 275.288
==================================================

[satrow]

"Caused By Driver : hal.dll" = Hardware Abstraction Layer

It reads like you have a hardware problem, check your memory by booting with a Memtest86 CD and run it for at least 7 passes. You may find that changing the voltage/clock speed on your RAM will be enough to stabilize it.

If you give us more hardware details, we may be able to help further.

More troubleshooting hints for the 0x124 BSOD here - http://www.sevenforums.com/crash-lockup ... t-try.html

[Moonchild]

hal.dll errors can also (more likely, actually) be caused by bad hardware drivers.
Pale Moon uses Direct3D, so a likely culprit would be your 64-bit video drivers.

[Noom Elap]

cymroly, thanks for your quick reply! I fired up SIW for my hardware specs and you were right. It might be some memory problem.
I have no clue how to solve it though :/
Instead I've installed the 32bit version of Pale Moon in the meantime that runs without a crash yet. makes sense when it's a memory problem >4gb
...just curious that Iron Portable (a chromium built), no optimization is ~ 2x as fast rendering pages than Pale Moon is.
Most noticeable in browser games (non flash ones) until elements respond.

(LENOVO Ideapad S205)
Property Value

Memory Summary Reported by BIOS
Warning! Wrong values reported by BIOS <---
Maximum Capacity 32768 MBytes
Maximum Memory Module Size [unknown] <---
Memory Slots 2
Error Correction None
DRAM Frequency 543.5 MHz
Memory Timings 7-7-7-20 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
Device Locator Slot 1
Manufacturer Kingston
Part Number 9905428-040.A00LF
Serial Number 89195D66
Capacity 4096 MBytes
Memory Type DDR3 (PC3-10700)
Speed 667 MHz (DDR3 1333)
Supported Frequencies 457.1 MHz, 533.3 MHz, 609.5 MHz, 685.7 MHz
Memory Timings 6-6-6-17-23 at 457.1 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 7-7-7-20-27 at 533.3 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 8-8-8-22-30 at 609.5 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 9-9-9-25-34 at 685.7 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Manufacturing Date 2011, Week 6
EPP SPD Support No
XMP SPD Support Yes (Version 18)
Device Locator Slot 2
Manufacturer Kingston
Part Number 9905428-040.A00LF
Serial Number 89195666
Capacity 4096 MBytes
Memory Type DDR3 (PC3-10700)
Speed 667 MHz (DDR3 1333)
Supported Frequencies 457.1 MHz, 533.3 MHz, 609.5 MHz, 685.7 MHz
Memory Timings 6-6-6-17-23 at 457.1 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 7-7-7-20-27 at 533.3 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 8-8-8-22-30 at 609.5 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Memory Timings 9-9-9-25-34 at 685.7 MHz, at 1.5 volts (CL-RCD-RP-RAS-RC)
Manufacturing Date 2011, Week 6
EPP SPD Support No
XMP SPD Support Yes (Version 18)

[satrow]

Can you zip and upload the dumps for me to look at please? You'll probably need to copy them to your Desktop first before uploading them to a free host - try http://www.filedropper.com/ - I can access that without changing any of my security settings.

[Moonchild]

It looks like you are already underclocking your memory by quite a bit, DRAM frequency is 543.5MHz, while your memory modules are rated for 667MHz.
However, 543,5MHz is an odd number to have (the specs say 1066MHz DDR3 speed, which means that should be 533MHz, about 10 lower); it suggests you are possibly overclocking other parts of your hardware (higher than normal bus speed) which may be the cause of your instability.

You might want to try going into your BIOS and "Load optimal defaults" there, and see if that gives you more stability.

Please do note that I've had one or two other people reporting specifically BSODs on the x64 version before on integrated graphics, and it was fixed for them by disabling hardware acceleration, which leads me to believe that this (video acceleration issue) might be the case here too.

As for iron: Of course a Chromium-based browser may be faster in some areas, but you also lose a lot of versatility compared to a Firefox-based browser. You'll just have to see what browser works best for your particular needs. You can always keep Iron for your gaming

[Noom Elap]

again, thanks to both of you for the quick replies.
Moonchild: that might be auto-lowered by the AMD E-350 chipset firing a Zacate mobile cpu. That's just a wild guess of me of course.
Yea, I'm used to several greasemonkey/scriptish scripts and add-ons. For speed-comparisson I tried blank versions of Pale Moon vs. Iron.
ANother strange thing is, that Pale Moon eats more ressources than Firefox does for me. Same sripts, add-ons,plug-ins, etc.
It feels really slow when using it/its interface, trying to switch between tabs. Very strange behaviour I've never experienced with other
browsers on this system.
cymroly: here are the dumps:
http://www.filedropper.com/011712-11091-01

[satrow]

Did the machine come with W7x64 and 8GB of memory or did you upgrade?

It feels like there's two or three things going on here and I'm unsure as to how inter-related they are.

From the drivers loaded at the time of the dumps, I see that psadd.sys, dated 2/19/2007 18:56:37 is the oldest (I noted other versions as recent as 2010 in a search), pre-dating W7 by some margin. This is the Lenovo Parties Service Access Device Driver (SMBIOS) and should be upgradeable from http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... eLenovo.do - unfortunately, a quick search of the Lenovo site for that driver came up blank. I'd guess that (from the range of software on offer for your S205) it might be part of the Lenovo Energy Management Software under Power Management. Try the autodetect on the site to find the latest drivers.

While you're there, it might be an idea to update the BIOS too; the video drivers are probably best obtained from ATI, as the Lenovo video drivers appear to be 10 months older.

For the slow Pale Moon interface, you should try running with Moonchild's suggestion of disabling hardware acceleration in PM to test first, the priority should be to ensure that the hardware and drivers are all fully functional before concentrating on the software.

[Moonchild]

Moonchild: that might be auto-lowered by the AMD E-350 chipset firing a Zacate mobile cpu. That's just a wild guess of me of course

No, actually, it's the maximum speed your system can handle for memory, judging by the on-line specs for your laptop. It does mean that it's less likely for your memory to be the issue here, since you're running at a lower clock frequency (which usually means that any stability issues shouldn't pop up even if it was a little dodgy)

I guess a 2% overclocking on your overall bus speed wouldn't make much of a difference, to be honest, unless your hardware is struggling at normal (stock) clock speeds.

I would also suggest doing what cymroly says: update any and all drivers you can find, update the BIOS if you can find one that is later (I'm not sure about Lenovo's support website, but if it's anywhere near what it was for IBM in the past, it may need a lot of digging to get to where you need to be). Please do try and see if disabling hardware acceleration helps for you; especially if drawing is sluggish with delays when switching tabs (which is when the page gets composited in the background before displaying it on the surface) it may really be the main focus needed for pinpointing the issue.

To do so, go to Options -> Advanced -> tab "General", and untick "Use hardware acceleration when available"

[Noom Elap]

New bios patched but the memory error in SIW is still the same. Not sure how to fix it manually, any ideas?
I've checked for software updates but everything incl. graphics is up-to date. no updates on energy management, nor psadd.sys on its own.

the machine came without os (well, dos in case that counts) W7x64 and 8GB of memory + ssd where upgraded by myself.
hardware acceleration is disabled but didn't help it. the longer pale moon runs the slower it gets with times it doesn't respond at all.
not responding in task manager for some seconds displayed.
will try to compare it to regular firefox (portable) asap.

[megaman]

the longer pale moon runs the slower it gets with times it doesn't respond at all.
not responding in task manager for some seconds displayed.

Yes, the browser does tend to increase in the RAM over time, mostly known for stability. It's also something Firefox started addressing on FF7, they still have much to do.

Check out the link below.
http://techpp.com/2011/09/28/chrome-14- ... omparison/

[Moonchild]

New bios patched but the memory error in SIW is still the same. Not sure how to fix it manually, any ideas?
I've checked for software updates but everything incl. graphics is up-to date. no updates on energy management, nor psadd.sys on its own.

The "memory error" is simply a detection error, and that's most likely because SIW doesn't know how to read the particular chip info of your laptop - yay for nonstandard hardware I wouldn't worry about that, anyway, it's of no consequence to Pale Moon since it will only talk to Windows for memory management anyway.

It's quite possible though that your hardware simply has poor driver support for 64-bit. it wouldn't be the first time. I would just suggest to use the 32-bit version of Pale Moon to avoid your system crashes. Those poor drivers may also be the cause of your slowdowns and increasing memory usage. I haven't seen excessive memory usage in Pale Moon myself, at all, in the current versions, so it seems to be specific to a few specific setups.

[satrow]

Ok, can you keep an eye on what's happening when Pale Moon lags/slows by using Task Manager please? Set TaskMan so that you can see what's happening in the kernel - in the Performance tab, View > Show kernel times. You'll now see a lower line in red?, this is kernel activity, which would normally be at a very low level. If this line jumps up when you're seeing a PM slowdown, then there's a bad interaction with drivers/kernel happening. A few TaskMan screenshots might help us visualize how the computer is running.

You can check for updates for your wireless drivers from Ralink, ethernet drivers from RealTek and your gfx from ATI (if you've not already done that one).

The psadd.sys is the interface that allows SIW etc. to read the temps, voltages, etc. see http://www.dmtf.org/standards/smbios

I've seen many reports that maxing out RAM leads to odd errors - even if all memory sticks work 100% when used alone, when used together there are problems. This doesn't happen with memory that's on the QVL for the motherboard/laptop or memory that's been tested to work. Check the Lenovo QVL and the Crucial and Kingston memory configurator data for your laptop against the memory you have - any differences might mean you're risking problems.

If you read the page at the first link I posted, you'll see that the 0x124 BSOD that you had is a pretty tough nut to diagnose - but it's usually drivers or hardware

Synopsis:

A "stop 0x124" is fundamentally different to many other types of bluescreens because it stems from a hardware complaint. Stop 0x124 minidumps contain very little practical information, and it is therefore necessary to approach the problem as a case of hardware in an unknown state of distress.